Hello everyone. I am new here and pretty new to having goats. I do read this site quite often, but as you can see, this is my first post.
Yesterday, I wormed with Ivomec Plus for the first time. I use Fiasco's herbal wormer regularly and consistently, and in addition, I have also used Ivomec injectible (without the "Plus"), given orally, and I have used Safeguard. No wormer injections before for me until yesterday. I have given antibiotics and CDT shots before.
I was giving injections to my yearling Lamancha and two fully adult NDs and using 3/4" 20g needles. The Lamancha had never had an Ivomec Plus shot before. The NDs both got it regularly from their prior owner. The dose was at 1cc per 40 lbs, and I gave them behind the knee. The Lamancha shot went fine. Completely unphased. The first ND threw a fit -- just enough of one that I thought she might be having a bad reaction to it. She yelled and pulled on the stand and once out stomped around like something was wrong, but she was fine in seconds. The second ND flipped upside down in the milk stand. When I got her out of the head lock, she flipped over on her side and was shaking her leg and acting like she couldn't walk. I even thought I saw one of her eyes go a little off. I had the epinephrine ready to go and was about to reach for it but wanted to give it just a minute to make sure it really was an allergic reaction. I swear she looked like she was having a seizure. Acted completely insane for a minute. And then she was perfectly fine and finished her breakfast.
Best I can think is that my needle was too long, and with all their jostling about, I hit muscle or nerve, which hurts worse obviously. Any ideas? I really hope these NDs aren't going to be like this every time they get a shot, or I may have a similar fit.
If your ND's had been given it before, maybe ask the previous owners if 1. the goats ever had a reaction like that, or 2. what size needle does s/he use?
I have "full" size goats, so not sure if NDs would need a smaller/shorter needle than them.
Do you know if behind the knee is where previous owner gave them shots?
If the Wormer was just taken out of the refrigerator... it will be very cold...if you inject it and not warm it up a bit by having your hand around the syringe part for awhile....it will be a very painful shot....it will feel like... it is burning them....
About any needle can be used...just make sure ...you pull it back first ...before you inject it....if you see blood... remove it and find another spot....
Did you say.. you are injecting them behind the knee? Not a normal spot... if I am picturing it right... not a good place.. I usually give shots around the armpit area....
Ivomec injection burns them, that's what happened. I thought the same thing when I done mine the first time. I had to call the breeder and ask her. Yep it burns alright, even if it's not cold out of the fridge. I usually do my injections on the neck kinda in front of the shoulder where I can get some flabby skin to come up. I hated it so much that I'm just going to do ivomec orally now, made me feel so bad when they would scream and stomp.
We always use Ivomec because it works really well on the goats even though we hate giving it too them. Some of our goats were fine with it then one of our pygmy does freaked out when we gave it to her. We figured she either has a lower pain-tolerance level then the others or we hit a nerve. I would say freaking out is pretty normal when worming.
You might have injected it in a small vein when you did the nigerians. I know with horses if you accidently get an injection into a vein when you're not supposed to, they can freak out for a little bit. My vet told me about this.
I do ivomec injections and haven't had that happen before. I also agree with Pam that, behind the knee, isn't a very good place to give it.
__________________ Kylee at KW Farms Website: http://www.kwfarms.com/ Home to quality AGS/ADGA/NDGA Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats Info. on Nigerian Dwarf goat colors/patterns/etc.: Click Here NEW: LIKE US on Facebook KW FARMS
Some of my pygmys will do this too. I wouldn't worry. I have some that act like they are dying but as soon as I offer them the cookie they are suddenly fine. I too do behind the neck/shoulder and tent the skin.
Thanks everyone. I will ask the breeder where I got them whether she had similar reactions. I must have hit a vein or something. Regardless, I have ordered 1/2" needles to avoid unnecessary depth on them when they wriggle about.
The shot was room temperature. When I say "behind the knee," I am talking on the torso in the armpit area where people usually give CDT vacs. I don't care for giving shots there, because I have a hard time finding a fatty area, so the lower neck area would be easier for me. Since I have so few and don't show them, it shouldn't be a problem if they end up with a lump there, as I will remember what I did to who when and where.
But if they lose their minds again like that, I probably will just go back to Ivomec Injectible given orally and skip the Plus unless absolutely necessary. I was really trying to wipe out a mild lice problem with this (just scratching, but no sores or raw spots) and a drop in milk, so the Plus injection was probably overkill compared to an Ivomec oral dose. I am also spraying them topically with some mild neem spray that I use on my dogs and that works unbelievably well at keeping ticks off them. Based on my dog experiences with fleas and ticks,I doubt it will kill much, but it should help repel them. (We never had problems with fleas, as we used Advantix, but ticks were a nightmare until we tried this stuff. Applied once every 4 or 5 days in the summer -- just a spray or two, and the ticks stopped showing up. It's amazing.) A link to it is below if anyone is interested. I will let you know if it appears to help. I've gotten it on all but one goat thus far.
I do mine behind the shoulder. I agree about the cold (even room temp.) making it worse. It also makes the injection take longer because the med is so viscous. I warmed mine up to body temp by putting it against my skin for an hour or so before I went down. You can also hole the syringe in your hand to warm it. the warm shot was easier to inject and didn't bother the goat so much as the cold one.
Merry, Pippin,(saanen harness wethers)