he may not be aggressive yet...but it can lead to that....he first needs to learn basic commands...Sit, stay, come ,STOP, then try adding a long leash or rope to this collar..give him some room...if he begins to chase ...pull him back soft pull back motion firmly ( dont jerk him) and tell him NO in a very firm voice...then release and do it again..you can also have him lay down next to you and allow the babies to come to him and smell him...he should not be allowed to respond..a soft pull back motion along with a firm NO to stop unwanted behavior...as long as he does not respond to your voice commands in an instant he should not be allowed to be without a leash around your goats...patients and loving firmness can teach him
Lamancha; Saanen, mini saanen and a few precious Nigies.....
Tons of chicken; turkey; ducks; hair sheep; cats ;dogs and donkeys....plus 8 human kids and one awesome hubby of 33 years
Thank you Cathy....I have done a lot of obedience with dogs over the years and was a trainer as well. I will get right on this with him. I find that he is quite stubborn and hard headed about learning...is this typical? He is Pyrenees and Akbash mix. Thanks again!!
Your question made me smile. I've had a few different breeds of LGDs, and while they all have their differences, they are all by nature delightfully stubborn and independent. Working with these dogs I have really come to appreciate that the LGDs are a much more primitive sort of dog. I've found that I learn more about "training" them by watching their overall behavior and how they interact. Your typical pet responds well to reward based training, LGDs will too, but the "rewards" they are most likely to respond consistently to are pack based rewards. It may sound crazy, but my LGDs respond best to training techniques that are similar to natural horsemanship training. It's all pressure and release while maintaining the role as alpha.
I've also found that young dogs and pups really benefit from set "off duty" time. I take my dogs out of the goat pens, and let them play to their hearts content several times a day. They roll, wrestle, run, and many times I'll join in with them. This provides them a break from work, and helps dissuade bad behavior in the goat pens as they learn that "play" time is completely different from goat time. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say that a LGD should think that the animals they protect are part of their pack. This is largely semantics, but that's not quite 100% correct. The "play" behavior you see is a result of this misunderstanding. The goats are their charges, their territory, but not their packmates.
I appreciate the information on the LGD and what constitutes their temperament. My husband has more time to spend with him and has helped guide him with the goats. It seems that when I am out with him and the goats he starts this playful chase. I work a lot and only get to see him at night and weekends so he is SOOOO joyful when he gets to see me and gets all exuberant. I certainly do not want him to think of them as his peers or pack members they are his charges that he must protect and respect. I am glad for his strong spirit because it takes that kind of dog to do the job he is meant for and I am not a stranger to this type as I have kept very intelligent and hard headed dogs before and got them trained so I am not to worried. I just have never owned a livestock dog of this calibre and had no idea what exactly to expect. I am grateful for the input and I am always open to all suggestions.
My Great Pyr hasn't been around babies yet, but she's only a year old and was chasing our Nigerian Dwarf goats (she's easily twice their size!) for the first 4 months they were together. We tried tying her up, yelling, rolling her over on her back, growling, everything. Nothing worked until we got a shock collar.
It did take a lot of time and energy, for a good two months we were literally watching her ALL DAY anytime she was with the goats. As someone mentioned above, you have to be really consistent with it so she connects the shock with the action that you want her to stop doing. We also tried to watch her from a place where she didn't know we were watching her, so she wouldn't figure out that she could chase as long as we weren't around. Honestly, she probably was only shocked MAYBE 5 times over the span of two months, but it was enough.
Now she doesn't chase at all, even when the goats are going crazy and running around her in circles. We stopped putting the collar on her because she listens so well to our voice commands. We'll see how she does when babies are around, but I imagine we'll just have the collar on her at that time just in case.
I was also worried that she might associate the negative feeling with the goats and not with the chasing, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. It's unbearably adorable how much they all love each other.
I really agree with what was said about playing with the pups separate from their charges. It makes a big difference, and our Pyr knows that when the goats go inside in the evening it's time to play with the humans!
This is my first experience with an LGD and I did not take an older dog; thus, my experience is different from what yours will be. What I've learned, however, is that this pup does not act like most other dogs. This dog (Bulgarian Karakachan) "thinks" and is strong willed. I'm learning how to work with this dog literally by watching her. By getting her as young as I did, I have SIZE over her, which is really good since I've had to grab her several times. Yet she, too, is learning from the animals around her. She starts to "play" with a baby goat who jumps away and the baby goat's mother steps in to butt the puppy. This puppy stops and just sits there looking....I can just hear that little pup's mind....ROFL Then the pup stops and does NOT chase the baby goats. This pup put her paw on my 250 lb buck to play with him and my buck "gently butts" her. She stops! She gets too close to my feet and I "gently" kick her. She no longer gets near my feet as I walk.
I don't know what age the new dog is your possibly getting; but I suspect (being an LGD) it is a strong-willed thinking dog. Since you've had experience in training dogs with simple obedience, you probably already have become accustomed to being sensitive to the dog's frame of mind. Just exaggerate that sensitivity by ten and you have it made (provided you have the strength/means for "positive" corrections to any misbehaviors)! LOL
They are still dogs and they need to chew and chase and play. I found that having my LGD who is a 4 1/2 month old pup play with my house dogs is bad because afterward he wants to chase the goats again. However spending as much time as possible with him and yelling NO or HEY at him does get him to stop. I have a chain that I can put him on too. I haven't had to put him on the chain in weeks but I used it as a doggy time out if I had to repeatedly tell him no for chasing babies I'd put him on the chain. He can get to water and shelter(his own, not theirs). He really didn't like being separated. He is learning FAST. Also dog training 101 never say a dogs name when he is bad! He is only a dog when he is bad. I have tied a rubber toy to the ceiling in the barn so that he can bite it an pull on it and I give him rawhide to chew and we give him treats when he does things like "come" so that he learns some basic commands. I have also worked with him to teach him that riding in the car can be fun and walking on a leash. Remember that you are in charge of caring for them too! If a vet visit is required it'll be far less of a nightmare if he isn't afraid of the car or can lead. I also have been working with him to teach him to stay out of the goat feed. He thinks that he is a goat! He wants to eat with them. I let him eat next to them but he will bite at them if they try to sniff his food and if they are eating their own food that he wants he'll snap at them so I've been working on that. But he is very young and he learns really fast. So have hope and keep working on it, be determined! And give them some affection, even guardians need a little love!
Nubian and Boer Goats
I was reading over this thread and was reminded of when I trained my full bred German Shepherd. She was only 10 weeks old when we got her, raised her in the house for a couple of weeks, letting her out thru the day.
My goats/fowl all roam freely 24/7 and at that time I had a grown dog, Apache (mix Anatolian/Chow/Lab and probably some wolf from the looks of her eyes). When I let this shepherd out, I would attach her "short" leash to Apache's collar. Apache was always with the goats and an excellent guardian of them. Thus, whenever this little pup would want to chase the kids, she was automatically stopped by that leash attached to Apache; and of course, Apache would not chase. This worked great when I was not outdoors. When I was, I took the leash off both and let Cherokee (the pup) run freely because at that time I, myself, could correct her. The only fault I found in Cherokee's training was when I discovered, not only did she not chase nor allow anything on the place to be hurt, she would also break up all "mating rituals". I never was able to break her of that. (She was killed not long ago by a water mocasin.)
Anywho, was thinking you might want to try the leash technique instead of the shock collar.