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Old 04-05-2012, 03:13 AM   #1
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Default Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

I have a few does that I would like to deworm.
I will not run a fecal through the vet (I will be getting a microscope soon) as they seem to have no idea what they're doing.... they tell me one thing and then call me back and tell me something different.....

Anyways, what is the difference between Ivermec and the Ivermec Plus? Is there something better to use?
I'd like to not only kill worms, but ensure they don't have lice or mites. In that case do I need to inject the dewormer (SQ or IM?) or can I give it orally (I feel so much safer doing orally, but can inject if I need to)

I need something that is safe for my does in milk that have kids nursing. I know a few of them need to be dewormed as their eyelids are pale pink. Do I need to give them something else with the dewormer? Like iron?

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Old 04-05-2012, 05:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

Either can be used on does that are dry or nursing kids but the plus is not tested safe for bred does.
The plus part only kills liver fluke.
If you want to treat external parasites also I suggest injecting it SQ. I have had some luck with it working on lice when given orally but it seams to work better injected.



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Old 04-05-2012, 03:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

I prefer Ivomec Plus, given orally at 1cc per 30lbs. I deworm with this once a year for liverflukes. Injecting it won't get rid of intestinal worms though, so I only reccomend oral use with it. If you are worried about a heavy worm burden, I would repeat in 10 days, then have a fecal done to see if you got everything.

My other dewormer of choice to help with the bad HC problem in my area is Moxidectin. You can buy this as either Cydectin, or for small herds, a $10 tube of Quest Gel for horses in the green box. Quest is given at 1cc per 100lbs for goats. In any goat I suspect an issue (usually new purchases), I deworm, then repeat in 10 days so I kill off anything that hatched from eggs left behind by the 1st batch.

A good way to find what works for your area and your herd is to fecal. Otherwise you are just guessing and assuming. For instance, according to fecals, if I want to use Safeguard for intestinal worms, I have to use it at 5x's the label dose for 5 days, or it does NOTHING. So instead, I use Zimectrin Gold or Valbazen for intestinal worms (both work phenomenally, and are more ecconomical than having to use prolonged, high doses of Safeguard... These are typically, used in my kids as I don't have an issue with intestinal worms like tapes in my adults).

According to fecals, I also have to use a higher dose of Ivermectin for it to be effective, so instead, I use Moxidectin or Ivermectin Plus orally, and save the plain Ivermectin for use as an injectable for external parasites likes lice/mites.

Here is a place you can send samples to for around $5 to get an idea of what works, what doesn't & what parasites are your primary worry:

http://www.midamericaagresearch.net/

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Old 04-05-2012, 03:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStarChic
I prefer Ivomec Plus, given orally at 1cc per 30lbs. I deworm with this once a year for liverflukes. Injecting it won't get rid of intestinal worms though, so I only reccomend oral use with it.
I highly disagree with that. I use regular Ivermectin or Ivermectin Plus and inject it. It does kill both internal and external parasites.
I do my own fecal exams and can verify its effectiveness.
The injectible form of the Ivermectin labeled for swine and cows is designed to be injected and effective for many internal and external parasites.

There actually may be some danger in giving it orally if there is a high worm load. Some people say that if a goat has a high worm load the wormer given orally causes such a quick detachment that there is a risk of the goat bleeding out from all the sites the worms were attached.

I will be going to a goat parasite managemt seminar in a week and will let you all know what the new findings are.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

I do agree with the statement about high worm burden/detachment.

But here, with what I've seen in my herd & 3 other local herds, injecting Ivermectin, even at a double dose, gave no results what so ever on the fecal exam, both the one my vet ran, and the one I mailed off.

Over use, improper use & incorrect dosing have made a few dewormers ineffective in some areas...

So here, I do not reccomend injecting & calling it good, you'd have a dead goat if this was the only method of deworming.

But, like I mentioned earlier, unless you are fecaling, you don't KNOW for sure. Also, climate, method of housing, frequency of dewormings, dosing, management of the animal, all of these play into whether or not a dewormer is effective and there simply is no "one size fits all".

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Old 04-05-2012, 04:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

Quote:
I prefer Ivomec Plus, given orally at 1cc per 30lbs. I deworm with this once a year for liverflukes. Injecting it won't get rid of intestinal worms though, so I only reccomend oral use with it.
It does kill worms by injecting it...but not as quickly...when you have an anemic goat...this is a good time... to use it in this fashion....if you deworm an anemic goat ...by putting it down the throat...it will kill worms way to fast and the goat will bleed out ...killing it......

Normally though... worming goats by giving it orally... works best for them ...unless... you have an anemic goat...Otherwise.... I don't find that.. injecting it for worms works near as good.... for a healthy goat...

To kill one lice type and mites....it works really well for that.... by injection....


The Ivomec Plus... just has one added ingredient... to kill liver flukes....if you are not in an area... that has ponds or standing water...you most likely do not have this issue.... With the added ingredient.... it is not good to give to preggo Does.... However...The Plain Ivomec is OK to give to preggo goats....
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

I fully agree that many wormers are ineffective in many areas now due to misuse and improper routine worming.

Worming by fecal only really helps keep the drugs strong and the worms weak.

So LoneStar in your local area Ivermectin has become ineffective on worms? What dose was it being injected at? I bet those darn buggers have just built up resistance thru time do to the above reasons.

I noticed that I had to do a stronger dose of Valbazen to some incoming goats recently. My thought on that was the prior owner most likely used it routinely and in low enough doses that only the weak worms were killed off and the strong were left to thrive and reproduce their resistance. Sure enough when I asked her what her worming routine was she said she gave Valbazen every 3 months.

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Old 04-05-2012, 05:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

The goats were initially injected with Ivermectin 1cc per 50lbs is what they told me. We fecaled, huge mess, but they didn't want to purchase another dewormer & insisted that they had "Always done it this way" So they tried again, 1cc per 20lbs, still nothing on the fecal. Finally just took the bottle & dosed them orally a week later & saw improvement. These folks I trim feet for (elderly, not able to do it anymore) & they were just stuck in their ways....

One thing folks don't realize is here, in West Texas, we do not have hard freezes that freeze the ground & cause parasites to lay dormant for a time..... Here is prime breeding season year round for them, so we must fecal, we must deworm properly. I stay on top of it here by keeping pens clean, no food fed where hooves can step in it, copper bolus to help with parasites & fecal. Strict deworming/coccidia prevention in kids to prevent damage & scaring and as adults, my animals are pretty hardy & typically get dewormed 2, maybe 3 times a year. But if I didn't stay on top of things, I'd have a mess on my hands..

I'll have to ask to be sure, but one of the local vets was treating one of DH's co-workers goats for heavy worm load.... Pale eyelids, bottle jaw, lethargic... In bad shape. I think they did a few rounds with pancur or Safeguard, then gradually worked up to Ivermectin Plus orally. Don't know what they were treating, but I remember them saying the vet was starting with milder dewormers & working up to the big guns so they wouldn't have the rapid detachment/bleeding.... Goat lived.

Thankfully I've not had to deal with that in my herd, but I disbud/trim feet/vaccinate for a few local herds & their manangement practices set them up for these nasty issues & since they've "always done it this way" they don't consider that they may need to try something new. Personally, if my goats looked like theirs, I'd be too embarased to let folks see them, but the crazy worming is pretty common around here.

One lady mixes 1.5cc of Ivermectin to 2cc of Safeguard & gives this to her entire herd EVERY MONTH, and can't figure out why they look poor.... She had a super cute lamancha doeling that was very tempting.... Said I could have her if I disbudded the other kids.... I had to pass though as I don't want an animal who has been managed like that on my property..... No way would I wanna deworm every stinking month!

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Old 04-05-2012, 05:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

such a shame that they are all causing those worms to build resistance.

So this one that you know in preticular had injected Ivermectin 2x with no drop in worm numbers then gave the exact same drug orally and only then the worm load went down? I have never heard of anything like that. I cant imagine how the exact same drug would only be effective one way. If I understood you correct I will have to call my goat vet to ask if they can think of a reason and also will bring it up at the conference I am going to next week.

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Old 04-05-2012, 06:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ivomec or Ivomec Plus?

I was going to ask pretty much the same question about Ivomec Plus being safe for nursing does. My doe is getting ready to kid and I wanted to use Ivomec Plus afterwards. So it is safe for nursing does? Also I believe the milk withhold time is 28 days does this sound correct? I have a dairy license!



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