Babies having babies, HELP!

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by granitecitygoatlady, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. granitecitygoatlady

    granitecitygoatlady New Member

    22
    Feb 23, 2016
    So I have a friend that purchased a herd of Nigerians and after her first round of babies she couldn't part with any of them. She did not sell any of the boys or separate them when she should have like I told her… So now she has a problem on her hands. I hadn't been out there in a while to see them as she hadn't contacted me with any concerns. I knew that there was a possibility that she would have some surprise babies because 1. the bucklings were left with the rest of the herd for way longer than they should have been and 2. the fencing isn't great so the boys(there are 5 of them and 11 girls) get out ALL the time. Well, she sent me a message a few days ago saying they had found a dead baby out in the barn and that one of the girls had a bloody rear end so they were pretty sure she was the mom. I went out to check on everyone today and my heart broke… Three of the girls all had bloody rear ends but no babies anywhere that I could find. One of those three was having a lot of bloody discharge, to the point that every time she laid down she left a puddle behind when she would get back up again. I'm concerned that the girls are getting pushed around and it's been causing them to abort and even more concerned that the one may have an infection.. I convinced her to call the vet in the morning to check on that one. There are two more that I'm pretty sure are pregnant but they're so young and small that I don't know that they'll survive kidding. They were born March 14 and March 25 of last year. I told her I'd take both of them to my place where they don't run the risk of being butted and where I can keep an eye on them better. One of them doesn't have an udder but her sides and tail area are looking really sunken in and the other one definitely has an udder started, she's as wide as a house and her private parts are kind of puffy. Any advice on helping these girls out since they're so young and tiny themselves? I'm worried about them!
     
  2. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    How sad! So they got pregnant when they were only 4 months old? Are the bucks still in with the does? She should get them out now so the ones who miscarried don't get bred again. Do you think she has been giving them proper nutrition or anything? I don't really have any suggestions to help you except, can you be there when the vet comes & get advice from them?
     

  3. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator

    All you can do is have a vet ready if they need a c section. Hopefully she learned from this. If not it will be repeated again next year.
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator

    Jul 20, 2008
    corning california
    I agree. :(
     
  5. granitecitygoatlady

    granitecitygoatlady New Member

    22
    Feb 23, 2016
    Yeah depending on how far along they are now, they would have been bred around 4 or 5 months of age. The bucks have their own pen but they won't stay in and the owners know they need to fix the fence and make it more goat proof but they don't seem concerned with actually doing it. As far as nutrition, they get pellets and hay but that's about it. I know they were all vaccinated because I did that myself. I took the one to the vet this morning. They did an ultrasound and X-ray to make sure there weren't any more babies in there and didn't see anything.. they gave her a shot of banamine and an antibiotic shot as well in case of infection. I think the dead baby that they found actually belonged to her and the son that found it got the girls mixed up and told his mom the wrong name when he told her which one he thought had the baby. I just got home with the other two small ones that I'm pretty sure are both bred.
    There's Roo:
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1484421956.189869.jpg
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1484421970.915504.jpg
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1484421981.234546.jpg
    And Bonnie:
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1484421998.202557.jpg
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1484422010.036939.jpg
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1484422020.309376.jpg
    Bonnie is the one who has a good bit of udder development, you just can't really see it in the picture because of her hair.
     
  6. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    Please try to convince your friend to get rid of her goats.Maybe you can convince her she is in over her head? You are so sweet to help her. thank you for trying to save them. Sorry if I sound mean. Just hate to see problems due to lack of interest and management.
     
  7. GoatCrazy01

    GoatCrazy01 Member

    981
    Feb 14, 2016
    Michigan
    Thank You for trying to help these lil babies! Just try to have a vet on speed dial that is willing to come out and do a c-section. I agree with goatblessings, or maybe try to convince her to downsize at least?
     
  8. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove New Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    While miscarriages can happen from being butted, miscarriage from infection (chlamydia, toxoplamosis) and other causes are much much much more common. If there have been 3 miscarriages thus far, then it is likely infectious and all the does will miscarry.

    Sorry you are in this position. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like the owner is very open to advice. I would not vaccinate her goats or provide care for them anymore. It appears they have nice housing, clean bedding, good hay and water. Their coats are shiny and full. You just can't force people to do their research and be knowledgeable about their pets.
     
  9. Lisalisa89

    Lisalisa89 New Member

    326
    Oct 18, 2016
    Tennessee
    I too have a doe I bought from someone who is very young and may be pregnant and due around March. I am getting in touch with someone who raises lamanchas and who is also a vet. I am hoping she will be my life line through this. I hope they are okay :( I am super attached to this little doe too so I am terrified of losing her now.
     
  10. Lisalisa89

    Lisalisa89 New Member

    326
    Oct 18, 2016
    Tennessee
    Its been like this since I got her though so I'm praying she just naturally has a puffy pooch and didn't settle with the buck they had running with her and he was a hefty looking pygmy
     

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  11. JK_Farms

    JK_Farms Active Member

    Nov 11, 2016
    Tennessee
    Looks like he got her to me
     
  12. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    Definitely.
     
  13. granitecitygoatlady

    granitecitygoatlady New Member

    22
    Feb 23, 2016
    Just a quick update, I've had the girls at my house for 5 weeks now and I haven't seen any changes in Roo so I'm hoping that means she's not actually pregnant. That would be great because she's the smaller of the two and very fine-boned and petite. Bonnie on the other hand continues to get wider and her udder continues to grow. She's a ff and she's had udder development the whole time she's been at my place so based on what I've heard that should mean she's only got another week or so to go, correct? They're both still eating like pigs and drinking fine. No changes in behavior or anything. I did notice that Bonnie's ligaments were a lot softer this morning than they have been but no discharge yet. How much longer do you guys think we've got for her?
     
  14. cbrossard

    cbrossard New Member

    173
    Oct 4, 2014
    I had a ff who had an udder develop months before kidding! That was unusual, but she had triplet bucks and I read that early udder development can be a sign of multiple bucklings (could be an old wives tale!) The softening ligaments is a good sign though!
     
  15. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    Pinnacle, NC
    ^^That's interesting!! Both of my FFs last year started developing udders 2 months before kidding. Both had buck/doe twins.
     
  16. Lisalisa89

    Lisalisa89 New Member

    326
    Oct 18, 2016
    Tennessee
    Any udder pictures? I would think she would be due end of this month or early March at most.
     
  17. KLampe217

    KLampe217 New Member

    6
    Jan 1, 2017
    We had a terrible experience today... In early November, we bought 6 young Pygmy goats. They were born in August and September. Well, one of them became pregnant, her size increased, her udders appeared and we prepared. Today, very unexpectedly, we could see a hoof! We couldn't believe it! We waited and watched while she labored but within an hour or so, there's was no more progress. The kid was breached and our delivery experience was horrific. The kid's head was flipped back and it was keep
     
  18. KLampe217

    KLampe217 New Member

    6
    Jan 1, 2017
    It was wedged inside the birth canal. It was so difficult to get the kid out and we almost lost the mother. We could we have done? We feel so terrible.
     
  19. BrokenArrowRanch

    BrokenArrowRanch New Member

    653
    Jun 6, 2013
    How old is this Doe? Sounds like she got pregnant at a couple months of age? Not sure there's anything you could have done. However it is best not to let them push over 30 minutes with no progress. Also you should make sure she doesn't have more babies in her.
     
  20. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove New Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I'm so sorry for your experience. It's very unfortunate they were bred so young. Are any others developing an udder?

    Pygmies are notorious for difficult kiddings and adding such a young young age to it is just a recipe for disaster. But it seems unlikely that she was bred at just 1 month of age to kid this month - did the breeder have good records of the dates of births, etc.?

    Intervention earlier in labor or a possible c-section may have saved the kid but it's impossible to say. It's great you were able to save the doe.