Fluid in lungs--UPDATE

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Itchysmom, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    So, I think I figured out what happened with Meme. She is breathing better but still is congested, especially when dring her bottle. Owner thot she got pneumonia, I don't think so. Now this is just a guess on my part so bare with me!

    Meme was the smallest of triplets. She was seen drinking from mom the first day. Second day she became weak and by the second nite she was almost gone. Owner took her in the house and tubed her...twice within a 12 hour period. Meme gain strength and was put back intot he barn with the rest of the family the next day. She drank her bottle fine for about a week and then got very congested and her breathing was labored. Owner took her off milk and gave her some herbs with water for a good week, week and a half. Her breathing got better, she was running around and took her bottle redily. At this point she was being fed twice a day.Then she started her back on some milk and everytime she had a bottle she would get congested. I am not sure but I think she is on milk only now. Her breathing is fine, you can still hear fluid in lungs tho. Drinking her bottle makes this worse for a bit.

    What I think is that when she was tubed she got milk in her lungs. As she gets older will this get better? After she is weaned and off the bottle will the fluid go away eventually? She is very active and this doesn't seem to bother her too much. For reference she has had this problem for 2 weeks and her breathing was fine for a week after she was tube fed.
     
  2. citylights

    citylights New Member

    822
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    Re: Fluid in lungs

    That's an interesting one. I've had babies that will sound rattlily (sp?) within the week or so that they're born, but not ongoing and not anything to do with a bottle. I doubt she inhaled milk as that would cause infectoin or pneumonia. If she was the runt, maybe her lungs were not quite as developed -- but htat';s a guess

    good luck
     

  3. liz

    liz New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Fluid in lungs

    Hmmm, do you hear fluid when you listen to her chest? Or is it more nasal sounding?

    Maybe try giving her 2-3 ounces more often from her bottle than giving more less often, could be that she's being too much a piggy with feeding.
    Check her temp when she seems congested, a high temp will indicate infection though I think that if it was a pneumonia she would be acting sick.
     
  4. kornhypknotic

    kornhypknotic New Member

    273
    May 14, 2009
    Waco, TX
    Re: Fluid in lungs

    If she was tubed fluid into her lungs you would know it immediately. She would have instant trouble breathing, coughing, gasping, open mouth breathing, seriously distressed. If she aspirated a little fluid into her lungs after the tubing or some other time the symptoms would probably have shown up a good deal earlier than it seems like they did.

    It sounds like she had some type of bug to me at least at first :shrug:. Sometimes viral pneumonia can cause those babies to become immune-suppresed really fast and so their bodies put all their energy into fighting the virus and none on keeping warm. That's why we lose a lot of outdoor animals to sickness overnight, IMHO. Her owner did right by bringing her in the house and tubing warm milk to bring her body temp up.

    When you put your ear to her chest is that when you hear crackling or rasping? Or can you hear her kind of snort and sniffle when she breathes through her nose like you would if you had a bad head-congestion type cold?

    If she has aspiration pneumonia it wont get better until it gets treated. If she has bacterial or viral pneumonia that can be very dangerous to her and sometimes contagious . . . viral pneumonia can be self-limiting, but it's VERY risky to just wait it out.

    Check her temperature. Normal goat temp is 101.5-103. If it's high treat with antibiotics . . . I would start with penicillin at 1cc per 15lbs (dosage per Fias Co Farm). If it's not high I would start thinking about it not being an infection, but something else.

    Check her palate top and bottom and make sure it's not cleft. Is she peeing and pooping ok? How old is she? How long has she been going on like this? Is she gaining weight and otherwise active, healthy, BAR (Bright, Alert, & Responsive). Does she have sibs and if so, do they have any problems? Was she rejected by momma?
     
  5. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Re: Fluid in lungs

    I will be seeing her tomorrow and will pick her up and listen to hear lungs..maybe I will take mu stheoscope. It doesn't seem to ever have anything to do with her nose...no discharge, noe sneezing, etc. I will also take her temp. She is peeing and pooping fine to my knowledge, altho I have never seen her go. She was not rejected at first. She may have been later.

    The day after she was born, 4 people the goats did not know went into the barn and I think got the does upset as they are only used to Judy. It was that night that Judy checked the new borns (diffeerent mom) and found Meme under the feeder looking like she was dead.

    I wish I could bring her home, but I am not set up for the goats yet. I will let you know what I find out tomorrow.
     
  6. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Re: Fluid in lungs

    Ok, I checked little Meme out today. You can hear congestion in her lungs and nasal cavities. No fever or temp to speak of. No nasal discharge. She is hungry and will drink her bottle readily. Judy says she sounds more congested after she drinks her bottle. Judy also thinks that MAYBE she was compremised the day after she was born somehow. Says she chortles (?) when she drinks, whatever that means. She is active and warm. Gets to run around all day with the others.

    I am at a loss here. Any suggestions?
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    possible cleft pallet which is causing her to aspirate the milk

    how much is she being bottle fed and how often? Sometimes they drink to much to fast because they are so hungry. its better to feed smaller amounts more often.
     
  8. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Stacey: I wish I could just bring her home. I checked her mouth and it is fine. Judy is only feeding twice a day right now as she has so much on her plate. I am not sure how much at a time as she wasn't there today to ask. Meme's belly was full so she must have just fed and left. IF I could bring my doe and Meme home, get milk from the doe and feed Meme small meals several times a day...believe me I would!

    I am just wondering if she will have this congestion her whole life. Or will it go away once she starts eating solid food. I tried to get her to eat some leafy hay, but all she wanted ws to suck on me!
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    if its just from taking the bottle and eating ot fast then yes it will go away
     
  10. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Thanks Stacey. I sure hope it does as I would like to take her when I move to my property. I am just not sure if I can handle a sick goat for the rest of it's life.
     
  11. kornhypknotic

    kornhypknotic New Member

    273
    May 14, 2009
    Waco, TX
    If there is truly fluid in her lungs then you need to put her on antibiotics. Aspiration pneumonia will not get better on its own. Since there is no fever that does not necessarily mean there is no infection. It could mean that the baby's body cannot amount a defense against whatever she's fighting. I don't think it would hurt to give her a few appropriately dosed penicillin injections to give her immune system a boost. Be sure to give her probiotics after you have finished dosing her.

    I would use penicillin since tetracycline products (LA200 and Oxytetracycline) can cause some weird problems in growing baby's bones. Penicillin is dosed at 1cc per 15lbs (dosage per Fias Co Farm). I gave one of my week-old babies (who weighed somewhere around 8-10lbs) 0.5cc penicillin when he developed an infection after disbudding. You can give it SQ and it shouldn't hurt her if she doesn't need it, and can only help her fight infection. :shrug: You might want to see how she is after she gets to your place though. I would watch her for signs of stress during the new transition and at any point you feel like she might be getting worse start antibiotics without delay.

    The chortling sounds to me like she's just having trouble drinking from a bottle. Separate her feedings into smaller amounts at more frequent intervals, like Stacey already said. Maybe try a different kind of nipple or poke a hole in the bottle so she doesn't have to work hard to draw milk out. If it is true "milk chortling" then she will get over it on her own as she matures.

    Also, be careful when you move her that the transition is made the least stressful as possible on her. If she is indeed sick, then the transition could make any sickness she might have worse.

    Good luck! :hug:
     
  12. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Thanks for all your help!

    Unfortunately there is not much I can do as she is not technically mine yet. Judy won't take her to the vet and I really do not think she knows for sure what is wrong with her, other than she is congested. She was giving her some herbs with water for several days. I have no idea what. It is hard for me to tel her what she should be doing as she won't listen. All I can do is hope she does give Meme to me and once I have her I can be more proactive with her.
     
  13. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    I wouldnt think it had anything to do with being tube fed - I have tube fed babies more often than I can count, pretty much, and I have never had a problem like that from tube feeding.

    LW
     
  14. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    just wanted to say, although I havent read this whole post in detail, basically if you tube milk straight into the lungs, well you would know. cos you would have a dead or almost dead kid within 5 mins or so.

    but yeah, if she just aspirated a little milk, when the tube was being withdrawn, or by milk going down the right way at bottle feeding, that can cause pneumonia.
     
  15. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Do you all think she needs a round of antibiotics at this point. I mean she has been this way for at least two weeks now. She will be 28 days old tomorrow. If so, what would you suggest as far as antibiotics for a youngin"?
     
  16. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    yes absolutely she needs antibiotics if this has persisted for 2 wks obviously she cannot fight it herself

    as to the brand I will let a fellow US member advise you on that
     
  17. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    Nuflor or Excanel would be my choice, Nuflor being first. When one of our babies came down with pneumonia the vet gave 3 cc's nuflor and 1/2 cc banamine every other day for a total of 2 doses. She came out of it without complications.
     
  18. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Nuflor is an Rx

    Penicillin is easier to get your hands on - dosage is 1cc per 20lbs