FRUSTRATED!!! Scours off and on for months. Vets are scratching their heads.

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by emmaandoscar, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    I have a doe that has had scours off and on since she was very young. It started out here and there at first and now it's all the time, but she'll go from very runny to almost normal (clumps, like dog poop, and a few pellets but not pellets). She has been wormed, and treated for cocci 5 times. There are no cocci and no worms in her stool. My regular vet treated her for cocci 4 times (albon) and I used corrid in the waterer too. Still, she has the runs. Vet recommended me to a more research-specialized vet and he is also scratching his head. He has had numerous samples and tested. Also took samples of all my other goats that are in with Lucy. None of my other goats has ever had the scours. All are healthy and no worms or parasites. Vet did say that in one of the samples there were a ton of something in the sample but none of them could figure out what it was. I have been giving her probiotics every day. That seems to help a bit.

    I had all my goats on oat hay and thought maybe she was having some sort of allergy to the oat hay, so I cleaned the mangers of it and started feeding alfalfa....her poo got a little better for a few days and then right back to runny, then better then runny, then better then runny. That is how it's been for months. My goats have a never ending supply of hay, purina goat mineral, baking soda and I give them sweet feed (COB) as a treat. I even thought maybe the sweet feed was the culprit. Nope. Didn't matter if I gave that to Lucy or not, still has runs intermittently. It's green in color. She will be two years old in the beginning of June.

    She is happy, she plays, she eats and drinks like a piglet. She is stunted in her growth though compared to the other girls around her same age.

    I don't know what else to do. Vets are stumped. Anyone have a similar experience with any of your goats? Just don't know what could be causing this. Thanks, Carol
     
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator

    Try rumen boluses. See if the vet has rumen boluses that have no medication in them. Do one once a day for 3 days.
     

  3. nicolemackenzie

    nicolemackenzie Active Member

    Dec 27, 2014
    Try sending the fecal sample in to a lab familiar with large animals.

    Test for johnes as well if you can.

    Do you have an accurate weight?

    What mg/kg dosage and what dewormer was used and how many days in between.

    Dewormers in feed and water can very easily be under ingested and lead to resistant parasites.

    Underdosing based on incorrect info or underdosing based off of incorrect weight guesses can also lead to resistance.

    I believe you aren't supposed to do free choice baking soda.

    I'd probably try to do mineral, hay, probiotics, electrolytes, and rumen bolus.

    Make sure to feed up off the ground and keep water sources free of feces. ( I think they try to get poop in their water!)

    Edit: I'd do no grain etc just hay for a few days.
     
  4. lovinglife

    lovinglife Member

    787
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    A picture would help, could she possible need copper?
     
  5. Dayna

    Dayna Active Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    Keaau Hawaii
    Was she ever tested and/or treated for cocci? That can cause diarrhea and stunted growth. Not all vets test for it.
     
  6. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Has she been tested for Johnes? Is she healthy otherwise? How's her weight?
     
  7. Dayna

    Dayna Active Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    Keaau Hawaii
    I read your post and for some reason didn't see that she had been tested and treated for cocci.

    I agree on testing for Johnes. Its a simple enough test, and not expensive.
     
  8. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you

    Apr 13, 2011
    Oregon Coast Range
    Chronic scouring is a sign of selenium deficiency. Id bet she's eating soda for salt instead of her minerals. Purina aren't the best choice for minerals. Try removing the soda, it shouldn't be free choice anyway and get her some selenium and E paste.
     
  9. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    She has been tested for Johnes and it's negative. My vet is a large animal vet, both of them are.

    she is a good weight for her size. She is not losing weight despite the diarrhea. I have never given selenium or copper other than what is in their free choice mineral.

    I just recently bought a tube of selenium w/vitamin E paste and copper boluses to have.

    What is strange is none of my other goats has ever had diarrhea. They don't have worms or cocci. Both of my vets have tested Lucy numerous times and they come up with nothing.

    I was looking at the tube of selenium and it says 4 ml every 30 days. Should I see about the injectable kind or start with this?
     
  10. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    Pinnacle, NC
    Start with that.
     
  11. I'd be cutting out soda and have you tried giving large doses of vit c? I've injected a doe for on going scouring and offer chewable vit c tabs as well as b vit or even try a good tablespoon full of Dollarmites.
     
  12. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    So, I researched selenium deficiency and no where that I have read, does it have diarrhea as a symptom. Can you share the link where it shows that as a symptom?

    As far as baking soda free choice, lots of people offer it as free choice and I've had it out for my boys and girls for 5 years. Guess how many times my goats have had bloat? ZERO. They only eat it as they need to. They seem to know when to eat it and when not to. My vets even recommend having it out free choice for them.

    I did give Lucy some selenium/vitamin E paste. I accidentally gave her 4 times the amount because it squirted out of the tube so easily and I didn't expect it to. I hope I didn't poison her. She seems to be fine this morning. I will try the vitamin C too.

    I have tried not giving her grain (I don't give them grain every day--only as a treat), tried switching up oat hay for alfalfa and nothing seemed to make a difference. Still intermittent diarrhea. Green colored. Maybe it's selenium or copper deficiency, but I don't see runny poop as a symptom listed anywhere for either of those. Both my vets have sent stool samples to various labs and they come up with nothing. I am at a loss.
     
  13. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    Pinnacle, NC
  14. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    What is Dollarmites?
     
  15. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    Thanks suzanne. That was a good read and very informative. Also, crap, I didn't really know what that thing was for on the selenium paste. Thanks for that too!
     
  16. nicolemackenzie

    nicolemackenzie Active Member

    Dec 27, 2014
    When you do diet changes how long are you doing it for and how rapidly?

    This doe may be very sensitive to changes.

    Rapid/constant changes won't give her rumen bugs time to adjust.

    Have the vets tested for bacterial stool issues?

    How old is doe? Was she ever normal?

    I wonder if she has intestinal cancer.... not to be pessimistic.

    Have you tried a cud swap with one of your healthy animals?
     
  17. Is she getting fresh green leaves? When one of mine gets the runs, in addition to other measures, I remove grain and cut fresh tree branches for her (that is, if for some reason I can't turn her out to forage on her own). It seems to be kind of like dry toast for humans...really tender on the GI tract. Certainly a puzzling situation. Please let us know if/when you get it resolved!
     
  18. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho

    I don't change feed usually. I only changed from oat hay to alfalfa to see if she was allergic to oat hay. I have had her (and all the does) on alfalfa for a month now. Stopped grain for probably 3 weeks. (but I don't usually give grain every day anyway).

    Vets have checked for everything.

    What is a cud swap?
     
  19. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    No she isn't getting fresh green leaves. We have no trees here with leaves on them in the winter. It is very puzzling. What is more puzzling is she is the only one of my goats (I have 10 in all) that has ever had diarrhea. I will keep you guys posted. For now, I have given her the selenium/vitamin E paste.
     
  20. emmaandoscar

    emmaandoscar animal lover

    93
    Jan 20, 2013
    Emmett, Idaho
    What are dollarmites?