How to stop LGD from chasing baby goats

Discussion in 'Precious Protectors' started by Jessaba, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Jessaba

    Jessaba Senior Member

    May 13, 2010
    Georgia
    First of all this is NOT my dog it is a dog I saw advertised on clist. He has all the things I am looking for in a LGD (male, says he works great with older livestock just chases baby goats) I'm just wondering how hard it is to get him to stop..I know it takes lots of training. I could put him in with my bucks until I get some babies on the ground and help him stop this behavior....but is it something that he can stop with work. He is a year old so still a pup. I have a female GP and have trained her and she is wonderful. I got her to stop chasing babies but she was younger. She is 8 months now.

    Is this something an LGD you would get an work on or just pass and wait till another comes along?
     
  2. Breezy-Trail

    Breezy-Trail Senior Member

    Sep 16, 2011
    Sprakers, New York
    I would get a shock collar with a remote control on it. You can get them on ebay for cheapish.
    It is what a friend of mine uses for his hunting dogs to train them and keep them in line.
    Also when they are in the house when they jump up on people they get a zap.

    I would give him a big zap whenever he comes within 1 ft of a baby goat. He has to know the baby goats are "evil"...just to get him to stop that bad behavior. Also don't just shock but use verbal correction as well. Yell "NO (dog's name) stay away from them" or something similar. Make sure he isn't getting zapped for everything little thing or it might be hard to know what he is doing wrong.Maybe have him in a pen with just babies and train him out of that. Then when you have him in with the bucks or does you can train him out of anything else (i.e. if he starts chewing horns). Don't try to train too many things at once. he should learn quickly this way.

    Some people think the shocker is in-humane but imo its not that bad. They simply let out a little yelp and run away from what they were doing...which is what you want. It is by far better than the dog hurting a kid or stressing it out.
     

  3. Jessaba

    Jessaba Senior Member

    May 13, 2010
    Georgia
    Yes I've been thinking of getting a shock collar anyway to try it..never tried one...well will talk to owner and see what they have to say..if everything sounds ok I think I'll take a chance on him.
     
  4. JessaLynn

    JessaLynn New Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    NW Ohio
    We just use a tie out when we have kids cus our LGD chases them.Never thought about a shock collar...that might work!
     
  5. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    The problem with the shock collar is you have to be there watching the dog and shock at just the right time for the dog to learn. It will take a lot of work and time and still may not work. We have a doberman that we use a shock collar on sometimes because she'll bite at car tires when they pull in our driveway. As soon as she goes to bite, she gets a quick shock. She's learning, but slowly. It's hard because we can't catch it everytime and you really need to be consistent with the training.

    I personally wouldn't trust a LGD chasing my kids to be left with the kids. Maybe you should build a large kennel for the dog to stay in when you're not there or put it in with the bucks. I would just worry whenever I wasn't with the goats if the dog was out there.
     
  6. Jessaba

    Jessaba Senior Member

    May 13, 2010
    Georgia
    I've decided not to get him.. I wouldn't have the dog anywhere near my kids unless I was there. He would be with bucks when I'm not around until he gained my trust and even then I would be weary. But thanks for the advice.
     
  7. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    I think you made a good decision Jess.
     
  8. Jessaba

    Jessaba Senior Member

    May 13, 2010
    Georgia
    I just didn't like the chances as far as how likely I could train him not to do it. My female was absolutely the easiest to train from what I have read online...have had very few problems with her. So I think she spoiled me :p So my hunt for another LGD keeps going.
     
  9. Jessaba

    Jessaba Senior Member

    May 13, 2010
    Georgia
    Found another LGD...waiting to see if someone else is gonna take him...if not we get him :D He is perfect...I was warned he kills chickens that are in his pen but I don't let my chickens roam except a couple and those dont go in the goat pen due to my other lgd. We shall see....crossing my fingers that my search is over and I get him :D
     
  10. Rastus59

    Rastus59 New Member

    15
    Apr 12, 2013
    Iowa
    My 8 month old LGD is now exposed to my Nigerian Dwarf babies and finding out it is fun because they run where the adults stand their ground and pound him good. I had to literally pounce on him and hold him to the ground letting him know this was NOT acceptable!! I have read in other forums to use shock collars but I don't buy that because he needs to know that he should protect not fear his charges. Your input would be appreciated. We are exposing him every chance we get to the babies under our supervision and correcting unwanted behavior immediately. He is NOT being aggressive but more acting like a pup playing.
     
  11. happybleats

    happybleats Active Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    he may not be aggressive yet...but it can lead to that....he first needs to learn basic commands...Sit, stay, come ,STOP, then try adding a long leash or rope to this collar..give him some room...if he begins to chase ...pull him back soft pull back motion firmly ( dont jerk him) and tell him NO in a very firm voice...then release and do it again..you can also have him lay down next to you and allow the babies to come to him and smell him...he should not be allowed to respond..a soft pull back motion along with a firm NO to stop unwanted behavior...as long as he does not respond to your voice commands in an instant he should not be allowed to be without a leash around your goats...patients and loving firmness can teach him
     
  12. Rastus59

    Rastus59 New Member

    15
    Apr 12, 2013
    Iowa
    Thank you Cathy....I have done a lot of obedience with dogs over the years and was a trainer as well. I will get right on this with him. I find that he is quite stubborn and hard headed about learning...is this typical? He is Pyrenees and Akbash mix. Thanks again!!:)
     
  13. SCRMG

    SCRMG New Member

    191
    Oct 24, 2012
    Your question made me smile. I've had a few different breeds of LGDs, and while they all have their differences, they are all by nature delightfully stubborn and independent. Working with these dogs I have really come to appreciate that the LGDs are a much more primitive sort of dog. I've found that I learn more about "training" them by watching their overall behavior and how they interact. Your typical pet responds well to reward based training, LGDs will too, but the "rewards" they are most likely to respond consistently to are pack based rewards. It may sound crazy, but my LGDs respond best to training techniques that are similar to natural horsemanship training. It's all pressure and release while maintaining the role as alpha.

    I've also found that young dogs and pups really benefit from set "off duty" time. I take my dogs out of the goat pens, and let them play to their hearts content several times a day. They roll, wrestle, run, and many times I'll join in with them. This provides them a break from work, and helps dissuade bad behavior in the goat pens as they learn that "play" time is completely different from goat time. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say that a LGD should think that the animals they protect are part of their pack. This is largely semantics, but that's not quite 100% correct. The "play" behavior you see is a result of this misunderstanding. The goats are their charges, their territory, but not their packmates.
     
  14. Rastus59

    Rastus59 New Member

    15
    Apr 12, 2013
    Iowa
    I appreciate the information on the LGD and what constitutes their temperament. My husband has more time to spend with him and has helped guide him with the goats. It seems that when I am out with him and the goats he starts this playful chase. I work a lot and only get to see him at night and weekends so he is SOOOO joyful when he gets to see me and gets all exuberant. I certainly do not want him to think of them as his peers or pack members they are his charges that he must protect and respect. I am glad for his strong spirit because it takes that kind of dog to do the job he is meant for and I am not a stranger to this type as I have kept very intelligent and hard headed dogs before and got them trained so I am not to worried. I just have never owned a livestock dog of this calibre and had no idea what exactly to expect. I am grateful for the input and I am always open to all suggestions. ;)
     
  15. mistivydel

    mistivydel New Member

    26
    Apr 23, 2013
    My Great Pyr hasn't been around babies yet, but she's only a year old and was chasing our Nigerian Dwarf goats (she's easily twice their size!) for the first 4 months they were together. We tried tying her up, yelling, rolling her over on her back, growling, everything. Nothing worked until we got a shock collar.
    It did take a lot of time and energy, for a good two months we were literally watching her ALL DAY anytime she was with the goats. As someone mentioned above, you have to be really consistent with it so she connects the shock with the action that you want her to stop doing. We also tried to watch her from a place where she didn't know we were watching her, so she wouldn't figure out that she could chase as long as we weren't around. Honestly, she probably was only shocked MAYBE 5 times over the span of two months, but it was enough.
    Now she doesn't chase at all, even when the goats are going crazy and running around her in circles. We stopped putting the collar on her because she listens so well to our voice commands. We'll see how she does when babies are around, but I imagine we'll just have the collar on her at that time just in case.
    I was also worried that she might associate the negative feeling with the goats and not with the chasing, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. It's unbearably adorable how much they all love each other.
    I really agree with what was said about playing with the pups separate from their charges. It makes a big difference, and our Pyr knows that when the goats go inside in the evening it's time to play with the humans!
     
  16. motdaugrnds

    motdaugrnds New Member

    136
    Mar 20, 2013
    This is my first experience with an LGD and I did not take an older dog; thus, my experience is different from what yours will be. What I've learned, however, is that this pup does not act like most other dogs. This dog (Bulgarian Karakachan) "thinks" and is strong willed. I'm learning how to work with this dog literally by watching her. By getting her as young as I did, I have SIZE over her, which is really good since I've had to grab her several times. Yet she, too, is learning from the animals around her. She starts to "play" with a baby goat who jumps away and the baby goat's mother steps in to butt the puppy. This puppy stops and just sits there looking....I can just hear that little pup's mind....ROFL Then the pup stops and does NOT chase the baby goats. This pup put her paw on my 250 lb buck to play with him and my buck "gently butts" her. She stops! She gets too close to my feet and I "gently" kick her. She no longer gets near my feet as I walk.

    I don't know what age the new dog is your possibly getting; but I suspect (being an LGD) it is a strong-willed thinking dog. Since you've had experience in training dogs with simple obedience, you probably already have become accustomed to being sensitive to the dog's frame of mind. Just exaggerate that sensitivity by ten and you have it made (provided you have the strength/means for "positive" corrections to any misbehaviors)! LOL
     
  17. TripleMoonFarm

    TripleMoonFarm New Member

    2
    May 29, 2013
    They are still dogs and they need to chew and chase and play. I found that having my LGD who is a 4 1/2 month old pup play with my house dogs is bad because afterward he wants to chase the goats again. However spending as much time as possible with him and yelling NO or HEY at him does get him to stop. I have a chain that I can put him on too. I haven't had to put him on the chain in weeks but I used it as a doggy time out if I had to repeatedly tell him no for chasing babies I'd put him on the chain. He can get to water and shelter(his own, not theirs). He really didn't like being separated. He is learning FAST. Also dog training 101 never say a dogs name when he is bad! He is only a dog when he is bad. I have tied a rubber toy to the ceiling in the barn so that he can bite it an pull on it and I give him rawhide to chew and we give him treats when he does things like "come" so that he learns some basic commands. I have also worked with him to teach him that riding in the car can be fun and walking on a leash. Remember that you are in charge of caring for them too! If a vet visit is required it'll be far less of a nightmare if he isn't afraid of the car or can lead. I also have been working with him to teach him to stay out of the goat feed. He thinks that he is a goat! He wants to eat with them. I let him eat next to them but he will bite at them if they try to sniff his food and if they are eating their own food that he wants he'll snap at them so I've been working on that. But he is very young and he learns really fast. So have hope and keep working on it, be determined! And give them some affection, even guardians need a little love!
     
  18. motdaugrnds

    motdaugrnds New Member

    136
    Mar 20, 2013
    How is your LGD doing?

    I was reading over this thread and was reminded of when I trained my full bred German Shepherd. She was only 10 weeks old when we got her, raised her in the house for a couple of weeks, letting her out thru the day.

    My goats/fowl all roam freely 24/7 and at that time I had a grown dog, Apache (mix Anatolian/Chow/Lab and probably some wolf from the looks of her eyes). When I let this shepherd out, I would attach her "short" leash to Apache's collar. Apache was always with the goats and an excellent guardian of them. Thus, whenever this little pup would want to chase the kids, she was automatically stopped by that leash attached to Apache; and of course, Apache would not chase. This worked great when I was not outdoors. When I was, I took the leash off both and let Cherokee (the pup) run freely because at that time I, myself, could correct her. The only fault I found in Cherokee's training was when I discovered, not only did she not chase nor allow anything on the place to be hurt, she would also break up all "mating rituals". I never was able to break her of that. (She was killed not long ago by a water mocasin.)

    Anywho, was thinking you might want to try the leash technique instead of the shock collar.