Is this hoof rot?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by keren, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Just been trimming my girls, and a couple of them, Spot in particular, has something funky going on with her feet. She's been lame on and off on one front leg, but I chalked it up to a bruise because Vanity hit her pretty hard a few weeks ago. Well, when I trimmed her feet, the hoof wall (the hard bit round the outside) has separated from the sole (the rubbery inner bit). It is quite a big hole, and its on the outside toe of both front feet, back feet are fine. Two other does had a much smaller degree of this, and by trimming away the long horn, by the time it was level to the sole, there was no hole/separation.

    Spot is a different story, the hole goes almost all the way up to the coronet. I've trimmed the horn back in line with the sole, and trimmed the sole down a bit, but there is still this huge gaping hole. And I'm at a loss - what do I do with it??

    The hooves themselves look healthy, not mucky, oozy, flaky or anything. The skin between the toes is healthy. They have a smell - but I've always thought that hooves smelt a bit, and these dont smell any more than normal, to me. But maybe I'm weird.

    I'll take a picture, I'm just eating lunch then I will get out there and get a picture for you.
     
  2. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I have some where the wall separates sometimes. I just cut away the stuff that has separated and put blue kote on it. Never had them be lame from it or have separation to the degree you say some of yours have it. Do you have iodine or some sort of thrush/anti fungal remedy you could put on it?
     

  3. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    I have Vetadine, could mix some up and put it on the foot ... I'm also going to get some sawdust or something to lay in their muddy yard, maybe that will help. Pour it in the hole you reckon?
     
  4. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yeah. I would put the stuff in the hole. Clean it out as well as you can first.

    Maybe wrap it to stop dirt from going right back in the hole?
     
  5. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Okay here are the pics. I was wrong, its the inside toe on each front foot, not the outside

    [​IMG]

    I've added some lines in paint in case you cant see:

    [​IMG]

    The big bit outlined in blue in the middle is of course the sole, the blue outlined bit on the right is the gap between the sole and the horn (green squiggle inside), the red bit on the left is horn but it is solid to the sole, no hole. Gosh I hope that makes sense.
     
  6. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    We have this occur often when the weather gets wet. It is what some call foot rot or hoof rot. We usually give them a shot of LA-200 if they become lame and trim off any hoof that may retain moisture or any of the funky black stuff that accumulates (please excuse my spelling!) scrape it all off well and wash with soapy, strong bleach water. Allow to dry and treat liberally with coppertox hoof treatment. Coppertox acts as an astringent and protctive coating, allow it to dry thoroughly. Keep them out of any muddy areas if possible and provide a dry area for them to bed down in. If there is an extended period of wet weather you may consider making the goats walk through a foot bath with strong bleach water when they come in from the pasture to bed down for the night. Use generic cheapo bleach cuz it is still chlorine bleach, not the chemical that Chlorox sells now days that they pass off as bleach.
    I know I brag about how dry and hot it is in Texas, but we get our wet weather patterns that drop feet of rain instead of inches. As I said, cut back any areas that wet, scummy stuff can accumulate in and treat with coppertox and the hoof should heal and grow back kinda like a fingernail does when you lose it, just keep it clean and disinfected!
    I hope this helps! :?
     
  7. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    Trim the blue, pocket-like area back all of the way to the quick(?) and clean it thoroughly asnd treat as I described before.
     
  8. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    thanks so much Fred.

    Question, will the horn re-attach to the sole, or do I have to wait for it to grow out?

    It is much much wetter here than normal, and although they have dry areas they have still been walking in mud quite a bit, poor goaties.
     
  9. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    It will regrow once you cut off the area that is causing the pocket. You need to remove that in order to eliminate the fungus and bad stuff in there and allow it to dry out and heal. Squirt the coppertox liberally on it and allow it time to dry before they get back in the slush.
     
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I woudnt cut it all back in one shot but in like stages every other day go and clip off abit more - dont want her ot get tender footed more then necessary
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator

    Jul 20, 2008
    corning california
    If I see any bad stuff such as that ...I cut it off...get rid of.... as much as possible...without drawing blood...it is good to get that bad out of there.... so it can start the healing process.... Trim off that pocket ..so there is none (off the side wall) and clean off the yucky stuff....You don't want the pocket to stay there.......I use Iodine to clean it after a trim.. then use hoof rot treatment or thrush stuff after......keep treating... Keep the goats that have this problem.. in a dry area........ Every couple of weeks or so.. trim off more bad....until you get healthy tissue...... :wink: good luck
     
  12. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    It's like a fingernail, it grows back! Trim it off as far as possible, wash with bleach/soap, rinse well, and put coppertox to cover and act as an antiseptic. It needs to dry out so that the fungus doesn't come back. If you cover it or just clean it out without cutting off the bad cover then you risk infection. As someone who has had a lot of goats with hoof rot, I have experienced it all and this is the best course of action. Until the weather dries up, keep running them through the foot bath and check hooves frequently. I tease and play a lot about how hot and dry it is here in Texas, but in the eastern part we get a lot of rain at times and this is something we have lived with quite often as our winters last about a week, between wet spells!
     
  13. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    okay well it seems like the whole herd has varying degrees of it :sigh:

    its only the front feet, they all have a smell, about half have the pocket on the side of the hoof.

    Now, I get that I need to trim back the hooves as far as I can, and trim the pocket out. BUT, on some of them the pocket extends all the way to the coronet! So thats a bit of a problem, I obviously cant trim it all back, and its gonna take months for it to grow out ...

    The other problem is, I can clean the pocket out, sure, but because its still there, as soon as I let them go and they run off, they get gunk back into the pocket!

    So, I guess I just want some clarification. The steps I need to do are:

    1) Trim the feet as far back as possible
    2) Clean the hoof with bleach water
    3) Treat the hoof with Koppertox (now I just need to find the australian equivalent, groan)
    4) Give an injection of oxytetracycline
    5) Keep in a dry area
    6) foot bath the goats in bleach daily
    7) trim what ... weekly? until the pockets are gone

    The pens I have them in ... have some muddy bits and some dry bits. Is that okay? I honestly do not have anywhere at the moment that is 100% dry.
     
  14. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    Yes the cover will grow back quicker than you think! On step 7 you need to trim the cover and hoof to keep it growing evenly. The area under the cover that you will expose when you cut the cover back will harden and look kinda gnarley and you will need to keep that trimmed back also.
    Try to find some shipping pallets to lay down over the mucky areas and cover them with some old carpet or plywood to give the goats somewhere dry to stay out of the muck. You can get the carpet from a store that sells it and the plywood from a construction site that gives away the scraps. Keeping their hooves dry long enough for them to heal is the key!
     
  15. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I agree with Bill. Living in western washington we get a lot of wet weather during the winter. Trim the wall of the hoof back as far back as you can. This well help the hopof dry out. When you leave the wall tehre (the pocket) it just fills with mud and wet causing even more damage. Clean it well with blean water or some sort of antibacterial soap. And spray with koppertox. Blu kote would work good. If she is lame run your hands up and down both of her front legs at the same time. Feel for any heat/swelling/abnormalities.
    I have found the best way to avoid hoofrot is to trim feet often. If you can manage once a month that is great every three weeks is even better. The last couple of years i was trimming my goats every two to three weeks. And didnt see any hoofrot at all.
    hope this helps
    beth
     
  16. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Very easy way to tell if it's rotten, Keren - smell it :greengrin: Foot rot has a very distinctive... rottenish smell. It's fairly rampant on my farm I'm afraid... however the hoof wall can come away like that without it actually being rotten. Bit of dirt gets stuck, hole gets bigger, and so on. THEN hoof rot can set in as well. Basically you need to cut the wall back so that dirt can't get stuck in it any more. Then, the wall should grow back down gradually, normally. It shouldn't make her tender-footed to cut back as far as it is loose - as it is already loose and not supporting her hoof there anyway :wink: This is how I do all of our sheep (and goats if necessary) as our land is very wet. They do not limp after the hoof is cut back there. Make sure you remove all of the muddy stuff in the gap as it can cause it to go bad.

    Hope this helps and I haven't contradicted too many people!!!

    LW
     
  17. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    weevil, the pocket goes all the way to her actual leg ... I mean I guess I could get the snips in there and cut it off, like just the side of her hoof not the rubbery bit as well, that way stuff wouldnt keep collecting in there ... is that okay?
     
  18. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    don't cut the rubbery bit. The only part you want to pare back is the outide hard layer. It's simply to stop the mud getting stuck. If you cut the rubbery bit as well like that it'll get really sore. Sorry that's what I meant, I didnt mean to cut the WHOLE hoof back :wink:

    There's not all that much you can do trimming-wise if an animal has hoof rot all through the rubbery inside part of the hoof. It can go all holey, pus-filled, stinky, bleeding, growth-filled... not nice. However your goat does look like the actual hoof part is healthy. When they have bad foot rot (like above) pretty much all you can do is pare down the outside as much as possible and then spray some kind of antibiotic spray for footrot on the hoof and give an injection of tetroxy LA... dunno what that is in Australia? :scratch:

    Hope this helps
    LW

    PS I will maybe ... possibly... be doing sheep hoofs at home this week and may... possibly... be able to take a picture of BAD hoof rot assuming it's a) not raining b) I have my camera c) my hands arent too dirty d) I remember e) that there IS a sheep with bad hoof rot this week ROFL

    LW
     
  19. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    thanks weevil. yeah, the rubbery bit is really nice and healthy, its just the horny bit has separated off from the rubber and making that pocket.

    exquivalent would be tetravet I think :wink:
     
  20. sealawyer

    sealawyer New Member

    366
    May 31, 2009
    Dew, Texas
    Keren, the rubbery area that you mention will harden and toughen up and the hard cover will grow back. Keep an eye on it and remove any other loose pieces and places that a new pocket may form and use some strong iodine or coppertox on it to dry and protect it. Good health to you and your goats! :sun: