research on KIDDING LARGE KIDS

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by happybleats, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. happybleats

    happybleats Active Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    I remember reading about causes of super Large kids..I know feeding improper, Breeding to larger buck...but I thought there was a mineral issue as well...what are your thoughts??:thinking:
     
  2. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove New Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I think I had read about mineral deficient does settling fewer eggs and therefore having a higher rate of singles and therefore having high birth weights! I don't have the back up for that though, but it seems logical! I wonder if I can find where I read it.
     

  3. happybleats

    happybleats Active Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    A gals Does are have 12 and 13 pounds kids...twins as well....and for the life of me i cant remember where I read about minerals def. Causing this. I know ocer feeding and high protien can be the cause....maybe i grasping at poor memory lol
     
  4. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I haven't heard about minerals but is this a new buck she is using? It could just be the buck it's self that throws large kids. With the angus cattle they keep very close track of EPDs and there are bulls that throw large calfs and ones that throw super small ones even though they are the same breed. I don't see how that would be any different in goats......which is why I never breed first timers to a new buck :/
     
  5. heidivand

    heidivand New Member

    72
    Aug 17, 2015
    Following! Super interesting :)
     
  6. Buck Naked Boers

    Buck Naked Boers Active Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Oregon
    Jessica when your first timers breed......that IS a new buck because they've never bred before. I don't understand what yr meaning. Can you explain?

    We just took two of our first timer does to a buck. So I'm following this.....very interested in this info. We haven't had any issues with too large of kids. We did have a 10, 8 and 6 Triplet birth last yr i think. But think that's pretty normal??

    What is normal birth weights for boers? I'm assuming it's normal. Has always had close to 10 lb babies here I think.

    Following.....
     
  7. Bree_6293

    Bree_6293 Briawell6293

    Aug 3, 2014
    Australia
    We use a few bucks each season. 1 buck will cover some ff and some that have kidded before. We have one buck so that always throws really good sized kids. Average. Not too small and not too big. The does always kid easily with no problems. We used one buck last year and he threw really small weak kids. We have one buck that threw a few big kids but normally only just bigger than average. We dont often use him with ff now.
     
  8. Bree_6293

    Bree_6293 Briawell6293

    Aug 3, 2014
    Australia
    Forgot to add we did have a short time of all quite large kids being born. We changed our feeding and now feed little to no grain until they kid and the new borns have been much better. Our does all get hay free choice, loose mineral free choice, seaweed meal free choice and then once they kid they get grain on the stand once in the morning and then grain in their pens at night that only other does with kids at foot are in.
     
  9. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    I'm not sure about mineral deficiencies causing large kids, if anything they are more on the growth retarded side if mom is deficient. However deficiencies do cause less kids, so then they could be bigger in those cases.
    I've had some pretty large kids born here, biggest was about 14lbs I believe, but nobody has deficiencies. I do have singles more often than twins, but I also get trips and quads. Twin weights are all over the place, I've had huge does consistently throw bitty 5lb each kids, then I've had other have 10-11lb each twins. Had a doe through 8lb quads too.
    Around here, the biggest does seem to have the smallest kids, and the smallest does have the biggest kids. I think its completely due to the fact that they all eat about the same amount, but the smaller does actually need less so more goes to the babies.
     
  10. happybleats

    happybleats Active Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    Same buck last few years..said feeding the same but im going to get more info on that...
    Mineral deficiency maybe something else..and not related at all to this lol..brain fog..too much going on at once lol
     
  11. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California

    New to me buck not new for the does.
    There was a topic on a fb group I'm part of with meat groups awhile back about the average size of boers and most people said 8 pounds......but most of the people on there are large scale goat ranchers with minimum purchased feed. Basically pasture only goats ;)
     
  12. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    We've had em anywhere from 6-14#. The 6 was a small trip. Many years later different buck & doe, one had 14# single but average birth weight is 10 on trips.
     
  13. Buck Naked Boers

    Buck Naked Boers Active Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Oregon
    Interesting Nancy. Good to know.

    Thanks Jessica I understand what you meant now.

    Bree we do the same feeding practically as you do on yr farm!

    We haven't had trouble with huge babies really. I think a lot has to do with feeding grain during pregnancy. Just my thoughts.
     
  14. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California

    I agree on this as well especially since I stopped feeding grain, and I wasn't feeding ugh of it to start with, I've seen my weights go down about a pound. My one buck Gizmo though has yet to have a kid that was above or below 7 pounds.....and by that I mean 7. Something, always in the 7s. But to me 10 pounds is big for my kids!
     
  15. Buck Naked Boers

    Buck Naked Boers Active Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Oregon
    Yeah we had I think just one 10 pounder. It was a buck! Of course. Lol. Silly bucks seem like they are always big.

    That's good to know about how grain affected your kid weights Jessica. So do you not feed them grain at all or just til they kid? We start just before they kid. Then feed grain while mom is in milk. But I'm wondering if we even need to do that?

    We don't feed grain to anyone except kids and moms when they are feeding kids. Otherwise just quality tested balanced hay.

    And they are still fat, eating just hay!! (And pasture in spring/summer/fall when it's not wet). It's pretty amazing! I think maybe people think if they don't have grain they will be skinny but it's not the case if your hay is quality. I get tested hay because I have to here. Long story....

    Tami
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  16. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    No grain for a year and a half now. I'll give it to the kids in a creep feeder, I think it helps the does out quite a bit and I will put protein tubs out for them though and if the bucks loose a lot of weight while breeding I'll give them grain till they look a little better. Now when I first cut the grain out they went on total strike. Probably for a week they screamed at me over it. But I wasn't a big fan of giving them grain to start with. They would fight like crazy, the ones that didn't need a whole lot always got the most of it and when the lower goats would finally get more then a little bit they would get the runs. But what made me throw in the towel was a terrible kidding season. The kids were not overly large but good sized and NONE of them were in the correct position. After I lost one of my does that I just adored I said if I'm going to have to reposition kids I want them tiny. So I cut them off. No joke pretty much over night the kids started coming out the correct way. I have no idea why, I've looked and looked and can't find any studies of why that is but they didn't get grain again after that. Now of course this girl that got sick, she looks bad and I'm feeling a udder :( so she is getting small amounts of grain and will probably keep getting it for awhile but I don't see how she would make it if she doesn't get some weight on her. She is pretty much a bag of bones right now :/
     
  17. Buck Naked Boers

    Buck Naked Boers Active Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Oregon
    Wow amazing!!! That's so great to know about what your experiences were with grain. Yeah we pretty much do exactly like your farm does. I don't do protein tubs. My hay is tested and has plenty of protein. So I don't worry about that. They are fat. Lol.

    That's sad about the doe you lost! :(

    And yes that doe your helping recover, she definitely would need grain.

    But it's great you figured out how grain was connected to the kids positions.
     
  18. happybleats

    happybleats Active Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    I would love to go no grain. But need to organize enough to feed roots to replace the carbs and such. Carrots..beets and turnips are my goal.we have a garden planned finally this coming spring...being dairy they need more then hay and alflafa to give milk ....but no grain sounds great
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  19. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you

    Apr 13, 2011
    Oregon Coast Range
    I think you're looking for something to do with magnesium Cathy.
    Magnesium depends on how much rain the crops and pastures get.
     
  20. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I get my hay from my parents and it goes up and down in quality. I like the protein tubs because they can pick and choose when to eat it. Right now they are getting really good hay so no one has touched them in weeks. Kinda cool to watch it.
    Cathy I dont think I would be able to cut out the grain if I had dairy goats. I have 2 alpines and a Nubian and although they do get good sized udder compared to the boers I know they would be laughable at any dairy place lol but being as though I don't want to milk they are perfect for me. So your going to try your roots this year? I remember the topic you made way back about wanting to try it