Scur removal options

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by mnspinner, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    I just acquired an 8.5 week ND buck with prominent scurring. His owner disbudded him and she has always done a thorough job and never gets scurs. So I couldn't believe when I saw this growth. A good half inch, it's not the thin type scurs, but quite thick and thick around the base. She seemed to think they would eventually drop off, but I doubt it.
    Now this buck is a big boy, one of the largest I've seen at two months. He looks twice is age. I'm sure his maturation is fueling testosterone and thus the escalating growth.
    So I am mulling over the best option to remove these. If I were to reburn, I'd have to pare down the growth. How much could I actually get down without a lot of bleeding to do the job? If I got enough off I could still get an iron around it.
    Or would it be better to try and elastrate the scurs? I have always heard to wait several months before banding.
    Thanks for all insights.
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I would try the bands -- Never done it myself but if the base is as wide as you say then the iron isnt going to get it all
     

  3. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I had a buck with bad scurs. I gave him a bit of happy juice, cut off the growth and re-burned him. It actually worked pretty good. :)
     
  4. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    What tool did you use to cut off the growth and how much did you pare down? "Happy juice" - a sedative or what?
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I used acepromazine to sedate him but you don't need to sedate them. Cut the growth off with hoof nippers as close to the skull as possible and a Rhineharrt x30 to burn.
     
  6. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    I got more info. It seems this buck was not disbudded until 3-4 weeks old (yikes!) and he had little horns (expectedly!) by then. The owner pared down the growth to a clean head and then disbudded. But it didn't stop the growth.
    BTW, his sire was disbudded by a competent goater at under a week old and still developed nasty scurs. So it seems this line perhaps is stubborn that way.
    I remember years ago I did a poor disbudding job and had a vet do a surgical removal. A clean head at first, but the buck nonetheless developed some pretty bad scurs.
    So now I wonder whether another burn will do any good? I've had very hit and miss results and one time I barely started with the iron when I got profuse bleeding and had to stop.
    Might a banding be a better option?
     
  7. liz

    liz New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    The bands will take them off, but there is still chance that he will scur, mainly because of the "stubborn" regrowth bloodlines.
    shave as you would for a burn and get the bands as close to the skull as you can, because these are scurs there isn't as much bloodflow to them as if they were full horns and they should come off in a short amount of time....trying to keep the flies off of him will likely be the hardest task.
     
  8. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    when disbudding buck kids lots of breeders burn more than one spot for each horn, because their horn base is so wide, you may need to burn one over the other..

    I woulndt go lopping off goat horns if you dont have any experience though...I'd try the bands, worked good for me...

    so band the horns, then take the disbudder and do like the olympic rings on his head to stop all horn growth :)
     
  9. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    I have a fair amount of experience disbudding and have learned to really hit the bucks thoroughly. But re-doing a buck that was initially burned at almost a month old is a daunting task. I'll get a good look at him tomorrow, try paring down the growth and see which option looks best. He's still just two months so maybe a reburn might do it?
     
  10. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    ok do you have a picture?
     
  11. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. This kid I've just had since yesterday and he's pretty skittish still.
    Anyway, just spoke with the original owner and I got it wrong. When she disbudded this guy along with his brother, she did not pare down the horns. She told me the brother had even bigger horns and that they recently fell off! She strongly thinks she arrested any growth and that the horn I'm seeing is pretty much dead tissue. She's confident my guy's will fall off in the same fashion.
    I don't think I've ever heard of a scab with horns coming off like that. I always was told you had to pare down all growth before putting the iron on to do the job.
    Any thoughts?
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    A picture would help -- but if the horns are new growth under the scabs then no it wont fall off
     
  13. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    What's she saying is she has seen no growth since she disbudded about 4 weeks ago. And since this guy's brother shed his scab - horns and all - just recently, she has no reason to think my guy won't follow suit.
    I'm still skeptical but I'm going to give it a bit more time.
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I guess that you will see --- keep us up to date.
     
  15. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I have done it both ways. Bands are going to take a little longer. If you can get the hoof trimmers to go through them thats an option but make sure you have an iron hot and ready to go as you will probably get at least some bleeding. I have re burned horns that were two inches before (on some alpine kids) i got the horn good and burnt and they eventually just fell off. the kids never had any problems after that.
    beth
     
  16. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    I'm finally getting a good look at this buck kid, and unfortunately I think the original owner is wrong and this won't be sloughing off. It's unlike any disbudding I've done - but then I never waited 4 weeks and this is a big boy for his age. It just looks to me like a goat that hasn't been burned. There is the main horn root itself which is about a half inch vertically and then a wide base - probably at least twice the diameter of my disbudding iron - that is quite thick. Doesn't look like any scab at all.
    The reason it's a worry is because I have a tentative sale on this guy but the prospective buyer doesn't want any major horn growth. Can't blame her.
    I've done reburns before but not anywhere near this daunting a task. I think maybe banding is the way to go. I've never tried it though so hopefully you guys can give me some hints.
    BTW, I will get a photo tomorrow before I attempt anything and see what everyone thinks. I so appreciate this forum!
     
  17. shadycreekgoats

    shadycreekgoats New Member

    800
    Mar 23, 2009
    Northern Illinois
    We have done banding for some boer does I got at an auction. They were about 3-4 months old when we got them and they had pretty big horns, and a few little scurs. When you do banding the horns/scurs never grow back again. Just as a precaution, when the scurs start to get wobbly before they fall off it is best to put the goat in a area where it cannot get it scurs caught on anything. If it is wobbly and is rips it off early, there is a LOT of blood and it is a REALLY messy job. Hope that helps!! :greengrin:
     
  18. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    Don't know how well you can see this, but welcome advice on how best to proceed.
    Thanks!
     
  19. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    to me those look more like a stunted horn that wasnt burnt long enough. I would definalty band them or if you have a rhinhart iron you can take the goat tip off and use the cattle tip. I have done that before with great success. If you decide to band try and have an iron ready when horns come off. So the first time you change the bands on them heat up the iron they very well may knock them off.
    beth
     
  20. mnspinner

    mnspinner New Member

    477
    Aug 13, 2008
    Unfortunately, the original owner had a lot going on in her life and didn't get to this guy for about 4 weeks. She said the horns were the same size when she burned and have not grown since.
    Since he's just turning 9 weeks I might have a go at trying to pare them down and see if I can get the iron around the main root and then several figure eight burns around the base.