1+ month decline-?worms?bloat--HELP

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by amyrob, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. amyrob

    amyrob Guest

    14
    Nov 19, 2007
    Lori is a 3 y.o. nubian that I milked through last year and she decided she was done milking all of a sudden and seemed to go off feed. Watched her. Temp has been 98-99, was 101 once. Wormed her ivermectin ~ 3 wks apart. I did penicillin for about 5 days and she seemed a lot better. Thought maybe she had a pneumonia as she did have some labored breathing and a mildly crusty nose. Still not eating well. Have a coat on her. One day, she seemed really bloated and I gave her oil w/ milk and vinegar that had worked well on a llama that a goat raiser suggested. Massaged her a bunch and got some BIG, SMELLY burps out of her. Seemed better for a few days but still not real energetic and isn't fighting to get into the hay feeder like usual.

    OK, today, hubby comes in and says her jaw is swollen. Ah-ha-I had read that in my goat health handbook. So, this am I mixed up some Carmalax and drenched her. She spit out a few wads of cud. Burped some. I also balled up a bunch of baking soda and shoved them in her mouth.

    So, now what. I am going to try to get a poop sample to the vet to evaluate her for worms.

    So, now what?

    She is slowly losing weight, This am her eyes had a bluish lone of gook along the lower lash. Poop is harder, smaller little pieces that aren't necessarily formed and as big as usual. Darker in color, too.

    All suggestions are WELCOME.
     
  2. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Take this from a not very experienced person but could the penicillin caused a loss of flora in her ruman? Maybe a course of pribiotics would help her to repopulate her gut.
    She sounds dehydrated too- both the hard berries and the lack of appetitie could be due to this- sometimes dehydration causes an animal to feel bad and then they do not rehydrate themselve seeming to lose drive to drink.
     

  3. jaymerose

    jaymerose New Member

    42
    Oct 5, 2007
    Minnesota
    I would get a fecal done. I know that ivomec does not kill tape worms.
     
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Glad you are getting the fecal done. Is her jaw still swollen looking? could she possibly have bottle jaw?
     
  5. amyrob

    amyrob Guest

    14
    Nov 19, 2007
    Update-she spit out her cud and VOILA-jaw improved. It was just an inch or so past the crease in her mouth. Eyes and gums are still pink. Did drink some hot water for me earlier. Will keep giving her some. She is in the mud room getting warm. Temp is 99.7 Gave her 10 cc Vit B complex IM.
     
  6. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    my first thought is milk fever. they usually have a low temp with it. they don't eat or want to drink & shiver. here is an article i found on milk fever. i had a doe that got it when she dried off. so they don't have to be bred to come down with it.

    Let's go to symptoms. If a doe, whether newly freshened or a heavy producer who has gone off her feed, staggers while she tries to walk or shows weakness in getting up on her stanchion, suspect hypocalcemia. This is especially true if she is newly freshened and tends to go from zero to 8 or 9 pounds in about a week's time. This is a stressor on any doe, but the heavy producers are especially at risk.

    If she seems to be alert and can stand, but is obviously weak, you're in luck. And if she is so weak she cannot stand, but was just fine, vigorous and strong when you turned off the lights last night, you're still okay.If she is extremely pregnant, with three or four kids, and can't get up this morning, but was okay last night, you're probably still okay.

    First and foremost, make very sure you have at least one bottle of calcium gluconate before kidding season starts. That way, if a pregnant doe can't rise tonight but was doing okay this morning, or is just becoming progressively weak and wobbly, you will be prepared.

    At the first sign of weakness and I don't mean the next day, I mean NOW, get a syringe with an 18-gauge needle, have someone hold her head or tie it to something substantial, and give her five shots of 10 cc's of calcium solution. This is how you do it: Tent a spot of her hide a few inches down from her topline. Gently slide the needle in sideways, horizontal to her body, so you can deposit the calcium under her hide, but not in the muscle. Choose another spot and repeat the procedure. Do this five times, so she will get 50 cc's. She's not going to like you very much, but it is not really very painful. Put alcohol on the bottle top between each extraction of solution. I use the same needle, but put it in alcohol between shots.

    If she had just begun to weaken, she will probably be strong and steady within an hour, but it doesn't matter; do it again. Give her another full 50 cc's in new spots, even if she is so strong that she tries to slap you silly, because she still needs more calcium, although her body will have absorbed the amount you put in her an hour ago. From here on it is straight uphill, and she will let you know that she doesn't like you or your treatments, but give her another one in a few hours, anyway. Then do it again the next day, about three times.

    If she has stabilized and is eating well, just watch her closely. Another treatment may be necessary, and it won't hurt her, but you have to watch her and use your own judgement. Watch her closely for several days, just in case. You know your own stock - be alert.

    If she is pregnant with three of four kids, and is just a week or two short of delivery, it helps to give her some molasses in warm water and the calcium treatment. If she cannot get enough alfalfa to provide her body with the requisite level of calcium, for whatever reason, baby her. Take hay to her and make sure no other goat can get to it. One or more bossy goats, who will not let her eat, may be the reason she is struggling.

    If she continues to struggle and remains weak, you may have to get a shot of lutalyse from your veterinarian, which will cause her babies to be born early. He (or she) will tell you how to use it. I have only had to do that once in several decades of goatkeeping, and you don't want to do it until the babies can survive, if you can avoid it. It saved my doe, and her babies were only a few days short of term, so all four of them did well, too.
     
  7. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    WI was going to say the bottle Jaw. But if the lump went away after she spit out the Cud, then she sounds like one of my does. She I feed grain, she will stuff her cheeks FULL of grain, so she can get have a snack for later.
    I would keep up the Vits, and give her some of the Probias. I would also give her some warm molasses water also. Yes she needs a fecal count on her.
    Do you have baking soda out that she can have free choice? I would also try some baking soda balls IF you think it might still be a little bloat.
    Has she had a CDT this year? You have to get that temp up. Low temp says that her body is shutting down.
     
  8. getchagoat (Julie)

    getchagoat (Julie) Guest

    603
    Oct 5, 2007
    There are different ways to get the temp up. You can put towels then heating pads, then towels around her with her head sticking out. This is the best if it's cold outside so you don't get her wet. With kids, you can dip them in a bucket of really warm water up to their noses. You can also create a sauna for them in a tub. Put towels in it, leaving an opening like 8" x 8" or near that and point a hair dryer in there. Once it's good and warm, put her in and keep up the hair dryer. Your body heat is not enough to raise her temp. You can also give 1cc or 1/2cc black coffee every 15 - 30 mins to help heat her up. Keep giving vitamins. When my doe went into shock and temp dropped to 92, gave coffee, apple juice, and nutridrench every 15 min while she was under heating pads.
     
  9. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    How is she doing? I was hoping I would see a update.
     
  10. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    I was also wondering how she was.
     
  11. amyrob

    amyrob Guest

    14
    Nov 19, 2007
    Update over the weekend:
    Well, all in all, she is doing better so far. I have been down and out on the couch w/ flu-like stuff and sore throat the last 2 days. Ended up having DH take her to the vet but I was on the right track but wanted her checked anyway. Have her on probios, calcium drench and some MFO. Giving her treats and good hay and warm water. Vet said lungs, fecal, blood work all were normal except being on the low end of normal for calcium. Basically, it is a combo of milk fever and poor rumen function. She is pooping better, stronger, eyes more bright. I will keep on w/ the regimen and hope for the best.

    Update early in week:
    She is doing great-foghting to get into the hay and even headbutting some of the others. Much brighter and like Lori again. I WILL keep a close wath on her, finish her treatment and likely not breed her this year. She has to gain weight again.

    Thanks for your interest and advice.
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh thanks for the update. Sorry to hear you weren't well. Rest up good and take care of yourself.

    Glad you have a dianosis and know that you are treating the right thing.
     
  13. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    glad to hear she is doing better. if you have it happen again you can give shots of calcium glucanate. the doe i had with milk fever i gave her 100cc(5 10cc in each side sq) & she was better in two hours. also i gave her a shot of banimine. usually low temp in a milker means milk fever(not always)
     
  14. amyrob

    amyrob Guest

    14
    Nov 19, 2007
    please resend post

    For some reason, I cannot read the entire margin and missed all your message, Fritzie. Could you paste it to me in a pm?
     
  15. amyrob

    amyrob Guest

    14
    Nov 19, 2007
    full recovery

    Lori recovered well... didn't breed her this year to let her body regain weight and strength. Thanks for al your help, everyone.
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    well I am so happy to hear that. You are doing the right thing on giving her body a rest. Hopefully in the years to come she will give you lots more kiddos