10 year old doe not herself

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by whatknott, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    I have a 10 year old doe - father is a fainter, mother a grade pygmy. I've noticed recently that her hair is a little scruffy but otherwise nothing different in behavior. This morning she was shivering and yes, it was cold today in PA. But we've had some other cold mornings and no one else was shivering. then I noticed that a younger doe was harassing her and head butting her. She was butting back but she seemed stiff, almost like the fainting gene was "popping out" after all these years.
    Later, she was still walking kind of stiff and seemed to want to get away from the others. Not sure if it's polio of listeriosis (never did figure out what the main difference is) but have thiamine here, so gave her 2 cc.

    She probably weighs about 65 pounds. Does that sound the right dosage? She already seemed more stable on her feet. Also put an insulated jacket on her and now have her separated from the others.

    any other thoughts?
     
  2. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    At 10 years old, the cold would be affecting her joints...arthritis can be a factor here. The thiamine is good, maybe even try giving her some warm oatmeal with a bit of molasses , is she showing any nuerological symptoms? Eyes dancing, staggering or falling down? Any of those can be a sign of polio or listeria.
     

  3. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    no eye dancing and doesn't seem to show any signs of blindness - but staggering

    do you know the dosage for thiamine?
     
  4. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    The difference between Listeria and Polio is temperature. One makes it rise, the other makes it fall.
     
  5. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
  6. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    had briefly scanned that article; now read it again. Her temp is 102.6. Had trouble holding her still to take the temp myself as she was wobbling and trying to get away. When I put hay in front of her, she immediately walked over to it to eat.
    At this point, I'm not sure she has enough symptoms to diagnose her with polio or listeria. Since she's 10, the article said polio hits young goats. If listeria, she doesn't have the head tilt, blindness etc.
    Am going to think about mengial worm next...
     
  7. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    With the meningial worm, the goats need to be in a heavily deer populated area to pick it up.....and it will cause paralysis of the hind limbs before anything else.
     
  8. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    we are in a heavily deer area - in fact, for the first time ever, the deer came out at night and grazed right next to the barn where the goats are. We already lost a llama to it several years ago.
    But she is not dragging her back legs though - will have to read the symptoms again on that one - I just gave her a double dose of ivermectin and it's so cold out there with a wind chill of 7, so she's bedded down for the night and will see how things are in the morning.
     
  9. Winter is hard on any aged goat. It sounds like you are doing well with the treating her best you can. Make sure you watch the eyes too, that can tell you a lot at times.

    I did want to add that the Myotonia gean could be playing a factor as well. It should not be the total cause of the issue but not out of the question. It can also make the issue more dramatic, if that makes since.

    The degree of stiffness varies within the breed, with the meatier, more muscular animals displaying more stiffness. As for percentages, they can actually faint better then some Full Bloods. It is not the percentage that makes the Myotonia in a goat it is the bloodline and the gene itself and how it is carried. Some Myotonic goats will faint few times in its lifetime based on the way the gene falls. This gene can be seen heavier in the early stages of a goat’s life becoming less noticeable with age and some goats adjust or learn to cope or adapt to the condition. The opposite is also true. A goat may not show heavy signs of the gene with increasing noticeably later on in life.
     
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    how is she doing today with the colder temps? I feel for her poor thing
     
  11. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    just came in from checking her and adding fresh water to buckets - except for shivering, she is acting normal today. I still have her with an insulated vest on, but did not do any more meds.

    since I was noticing scruffy coat for awhile, maybe it was all worms. I had wormed her last in September, but I also feed a little grain each day that has DE mixed in. It usually takes care of worms for about 5 months but maybe being older, worms had gotten worse....her gums and eyelids were pretty good color though. But for mengial worm, you give double the dose of ivermectin injected (for 3 days and then safeguard for 5 days) - so I did the double dose yesterday and since there is no more staggering or stiff legged walking, I am not going to continue and see how she progresses.

    Interesting comments about the myotonic gene - her father was a fainter, but only fainted when he bred the does! none of his offspring (all crossed with pygmies) ever fainted. But she sure acted like she was stiffening from the myotonic symptoms yesterday. Also, I have a 9 year old doe that had a two year old wether that started fainting - the fainting gene is even farther back in the lines; then last year, with a repeat breeding on that doe, her little boy goat started fainting when he was around 8 weeks old!!
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    glad to hear she is doing better -- I hope it was just a fluke thing and its nothing serious
     
  13. Glad to hear she is felling better.

    This is why I love the Myotonic. Science has not even come up with an exact the gene nore the breeding colors. The gene and color paterns when you breed is so never for sure. I love it!
     
  14. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    she was staggering again tonight. Was trying to watch the eyes - not sure if it's "dancing" - more of a little flickering up and down (very slight though); seemed to be dehydated some, although drank water when I poured fresh water into bucket. It was starting to get dark so couldn't spend much time observing - so gave thiamine and ivermectin again; I'll see what she's like tomorrow in the morning and maybe let her walk around some (she's in a small 3' X8' section now). It's still so cold that I want to keep her warm too though. Just a little confused why she seemed okay last night and this morning and then it hit her again tonight.
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    well I would continue treatment till she is better if tomorrow she is looking better.
     
  16. whatknott

    whatknott Member

    266
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    just not sure what I'm treating - kind of leaning towards listeria, which then I should be doing penicillin too. wish I had noticed the symptoms returning before it got so dark out.