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We got a breeding pair of Boer/Togg crosses a week ago. They are both bottle babies. The Buckling is about 1 1/2 weeks old and today has a goopy nose and some shallow rattling. Doesn't sound very deep and is not real pronounced. So I figure I will just nip this in the bud. I gave him a SQ injection of 1/2 cc of LA 200 in his hind quarter. (I couldn't find a flabbier place to give it) He was great getting the shot. As soon as he hit the ground he limps & starts screaming. I picked him up to rub him a little more and I notice a little blood and some LA 200 that leaked out! :hair: What did I do wrong? And How do I know how much of the med actually got into him if any?

He is playing just fine now. But the others won't come near me.
 

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Well LA does sting really bad. I've noticed Banamine does too. I've given a ton of sq shots and sometimes that happens. It usually happens with me when I need to give a large amount of med sq. But sometimes even when I give a small amount some comes out. I figure it's because I haven't gone deep enough with the needle. I hope someone comes on that actually knows why this happens because I would like to know too.
 

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Either not deep enough under the skin or actually pierced the skin on the other side of where you pulled up to make the tent...I've done that on adults as well as kids...just hurts me more because I need to redo my mistake.....bleeding is common as there are tiny little vessels that can be nicked.BTW...Congrats on the new kids :greengrin:
 

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LA 200 is painful to the goats. Never use on pregnant does or kids under six but preferably under 12 months old. Interferes with bone & teeth formation both in utero and while kids are growing. Can cause abortion in pregnant does . :worried:

Your kid might have pneumonia,, :tears: .I am not positive ,,I do not know if the kid had a temp taken...
Always check temperature if goat is sick,because you will get an idea if it is a big problem or no temp indicating maybe a a little tummy ache.........
did your kid have a fever? If so is it above 103.5 ?

Their is a wonder drug you get from your vet called Nuflor ,you can give to little kids,,the best part is ,you give them 1 shot,, skip a day then give them the other,your done ......unless you did not catch the infection soon enough it may be a little longer,consult your vet....... This drug does wonders on pneumonia cures it fast........if your goat is not eating give them banimine injection to,,,it will snap them back very quickly,it should do the trick using it only once, but if they are really sick do not give it (banamine)within 36 hour period,ask the vet for instructions.

Good Luck~!
 

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Thanks for the replies. I don't feel quite so bad now.

I had taken his temp and it was 103. He seems fine, is playing, very energetic and is eating well. I asked my vet for a few different meds to have on hand and he said no. He will only dispense what is needed when it is needed. I can't keep calling him to come out here every time someone has the sniffles. So I am going to have to go online and see if I can get some stuff that way.
 

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toth boer goats said:
LA 200 is painful to the goats. Never use on pregnant does or kids under six but preferably under 12 months old. Interferes with bone & teeth formation both in utero and while kids are growing. Can cause abortion in pregnant does . :worried:
quote]

actually that isnt true. It only causes yellowing of the teeth and there is no facts that it interferes with the growth of the bones.

I have given it to an 8 week old kid and he is the biggest goat out there and quite normal looking. LA 200 is also recomended for treating goats in a herd that is aborting to keep them FROM aborting. :shrug:

Read this thread with an article by a vet who studied it.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=674

If you have information besides hear say that supports what you did say then I am happy to hear it and add it to my information though.

Yes LA 200 stings. I have never had it come back out unless I go through the otherside when giving SQ.
 

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I disagree with stacyRoop , this is my opinion and maybe some others,,, I do not know.....

Quote:from stacyRoop: actually that isnt true. It only causes yellowing of the teeth and there is no facts that it interferes with the growth of the bones.

Can I ask what isnt true?

Fact from the makers of LA-200 (Pfizer)
"Quote,,,Pregnant animals that recover may subsequently abort ,,,link below,,,,

http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overvie ... EN&drug=LQ

this is the topic of that same page you had me read ..
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=674
about the vets so called findings.......
topic :LA-200 during goat pregnancy info...interesting

written by Fainters from western KY:
QUOTE:I learned the hard way that LA 200 will cause an abortion. I had a doe that got pink eye and so I went to the co-op and asked for a drug to cure it. They told me LA 200 and so I went home and gave her a shot. I was also putting salve in her eyes twice a day and so she cleared up and I only gave her that one shot. She was 45 days bred at the time. A week later she aborted. Later I found out that it should not have been given to a pregnant doe. I don't use LA 200 anymore because of that and because it stings them so badly.
http://www.freewebs.com/scapegoatranch/

(that did not seem safe to give .....and that was after 30 days gestation~! ( True? )

I think you might of read it wrong about to prevent abortion she was talking about using Biomycin not LA-200 below is the statement please read below

Response:

Hello Susan,

Almost none of this is true for using oxytet in the goat. In picking
out what is correct, birth defects are most likely to occur if drugs are
used in the first 30 days of a doe's pregnancy. It is not about
trimester. The dose for abortion prevention, when using Biomycin which is
less painful, is 1 cc per 20 lb given once weekly , SQ,until the doe
kids.

Another thing mentioned is in this quote below talking about birth defects that is
puzzling because it does not indicate what kind(Is it bone problems or what?)

Quote:
Also, I wanted to add that Dr. Konnersman advises goat owners to,
whenever possible, avoid giving any drug during the first 30 days of the
pregnancy of a goat because it is during that period that the embryos
undergo the main formation. So, this is when most birth defects occur.

I don't know about you ,but it is not worth the risk losing or maming a
precious loved goat. There are alot of breeders that believe there can be problems using LA-200 on a goat,, these are (big breeders) they have the info on their websites,,ALOT of them~!
I myself will not use LA-200..................I am just concerned, Different people, different animals,different opinions..................take care everyone, I would like to hear your opinions
on this subject,thanks~!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well the little guy seems fine this morning and is bouncing around like nothing was ever wrong.

This is very confusing because Biomycin and LA 200 are actually the same medication. The suspension is what is different. So I personally do not see how I could choose or if there is even a choice. And I think that the actual illness plays a large part in abortion. For instance our vet had told us...if an animal has Pink Eye it is likely to abort that year. We are not a large breeder that is depending sales from kids so I would be more concerned with treating the doe with the best med for the illness regardless of the result of the pregnancy. I would not want to mess up a good doe that has the potential to give many good kids in the future. I think large breeders have alot more resources and can afford to keep several different kinds of meds around for different instances. We just can't do that and have to choose one or two that cover everything.

Everyones situation is different and everyone has their own personal reasons for having goats and just like the making choices with our own personal health only we know what the best choice is for us.
 

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My goat vet book says to use the oxytet----- to prevent abortions after an outbreak of claymatia (sp?)

I follow that more then hear say from people. I have been lead astray to much by that.



Just because it is on a website doest not mean it is true, doesnt mean it isnt' correct either. WE each do what works for us and I recomend based on what worked for me and I have learned. Experience is all I talk from unless I say otherwise.

Yes Biomycin is the same as LA 200 the active ingriediant is the same as well as the dosage. THat I did check at TSC
 

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here you go.

"LA-200 (oxytetracycline) - Over-the-counter product for broad-spectrum
antibiotic use. I use it very rarely. I don't like the fact that this
thick liquid is painful to the goats. Never use LA-200 or any
tetracycline product on pregnant does or kids under six but preferably under 12
months old. Interferes with bone & teeth formation both in utero and
while kids are growing. Can cause abortion in pregnant does at certain
points in the pregnancy, so it is best not to use it at all. The chance
for birth defects is highest in the first and second trimesters of
pregnancy. Oxytetracycline is sometimes used for prevention of late
pregnancy abortion caused by chlamydia and other bacteria susceptible to it.
Use 1 cc per 25 lbs. body weight IM every third day for a maximum usage
of three doses."

I found this information at the following URL:
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=72.

Because this information is so different from everything I had learned,
I first checked the information in a book I have; "Plumb's Veterinary
Drug Handbook, Fifth Edition," by Donald C. Plumb. The only
information it contains about the use of Oxytetracycline during pregnancy is
that it states that "a canine and feline study can cause congenital
malformation or embryotoxicity." And, while I could not find any
information in the Plumb text as to the effect on bone and teeth formation, it
does state that the use of oxytetracycline can cause "staining of
developing teeth and bone."

Because I could not verify any of the new information in the Veterinary
Drug Handbook, I sent the quote to an e-mail list that is
specifically for health and veterinary issues pertaining to goats. As it is
sponsored by a University, it is monitored by a Veterinarian who has had a
goat practice for many years. Following is first my question and then
her response:

Question:

"Below is a quote from a drug use article at
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=72.

'LA-200 (oxytetracycline) - Over-the-counter product for broad-spectrum
antibiotic use. I use it very rarely. I don't like the fact that this
thick liquid is painful to the goats. Never use LA-200 or any
tetracycline product on pregnant does or kids under six but preferably under 12
months old. Interferes with bone & teeth formation both in utero and
while kids are growing. Can cause abortion in pregnant does at certain
points in the pregnancy, so it is best not to use it at all. The chance
for birth defects is highest in the first and second trimesters of
pregnancy. Oxytretracycline is sometimes used for prevention of late
pregnancy abortion caused by chlamydia and other bacteria susceptible to it.
Use 1 cc per 25 lbs. body weight IM every third day for a maximum usage
of three doses.'

Can anyone tell me how much of this is true?

The Plumb Veterinary Drug Handbook states that Oxytetracycline can
cause "staining of developing teeth and bone."

It also states that a canine and feline study can cause congenital
malformation or embryotoxicity.

Is is known to be true for goats and should oxytetracycline not be used
during gestation except for in late-term situations?

Thanks,"

Response:

Hello Susan,

Almost none of this is true for using oxytet in the goat. In picking
out what is correct, birth defects are most likely to occur if drugs are
used in the first 30 days of a doe's pregnancy. It is not about
trimester. The dose for abortion prevention, when using Biomycin which is
less painful, is 1 cc per 20 lb given once weekly
, SQ,until the doe
kids.

So, not much good information there.
Michele"

The "Michele" is Michele Konnersman, DVM.

Also, I wante to add that Dr. Konnersman advises goat owners to,
whenever possible, avoid giving any drug during the first 30 days of the
pregnancy of a goat because it is during that period that the embryos
undergo the main formation. So, this is when most birth defects occur.

If anyone has any technical information that supports the information
in the quote from GoatWorld, I would appreciate you sharing it so I read
it and pass it along.

Thanks,

Susan

Susan Rektorik Henley
Evening Star Farm
Larue, Texas
http://eveningstarfarm/
Messages in this topic (2)
Like I said just becareful about what you read on the internet. It maybe based on truth but not actual truth.
 

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Hi everyone I did a search on who would know the facts on LA-200 and found it "I was wrong" :shrug: I bad~!!
:sigh:

I e-mailed Suzanne W. Gasparotto Goat Rancher magazine about the question she responded:
July 24,2008 Quote:
LA 200 does NOT interfere with tooth and bone formation in goats. We
originally thought that about 10 yrs ago, but its effectiveness with
Pinkeye and abortion diseases is far more important than any risk of
the former.

swg
OCRTx

use everything with caution or have your veterinarian help,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
read about Suzanne W. Gasparotto Goat Rancher magazine she works with knowledgable
people and veterinarians...... .

http://www.goatrancher.com/about.html

thanks everyone for putting up with me ,,you learn something new every day~! :help:
 

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It takes guts to do what you just did -- you are now high on my respect list :thumb:


I second the learning thing. I have been burned by thinking I knew quite a bit about goats a couple years back. :oops: But the "burning" was my own doing. :doh: I have got to be willing to be open to new ideas and the truth.
 
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