2 questions...pls look.

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Club-Mini, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. Club-Mini

    Club-Mini New Member

    Mar 31, 2008
    Hi all!!
    ok, my first questions is:
    can a goat die from Zimecterin Gold? Haven't found anything online.
    i was told by EVERYONE in my area that thats what works best....
    can a goat die from horse wormer pastes??

    second questions is about kidding.
    very sad day for me yesterday.
    went to the farm late cuz i had to go to the feed store first.
    when i got there....one goat gave birth to triplets
    two were already dead ... and one was barely breathing.
    i saved him....so i thought
    he lived 12 hours
    he ate colostrum and sucked pretty good.
    6 hours later....BAD liquidy black scours and almost dead
    hubby was giving mouth to mouth and we fought for his life.
    after lots of work....the mucousy stuff started coming out of him mouth
    i think its the stuff thats in their mouth when their first born...and it never came out.
    is this possible?
    and if mama abandons kids or something happens to her...what to do if they're still covered in the bag?
    i've had a few babies...bottle babies...bu never this "straight from the womb"
    i know wipe them down...but do i need to suck stuff out of their mouth or nose?

  2. goatshows

    goatshows New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    I Can't help you on the wormer question.

    For the kid it dose sound like he did have mucus stuck in his throut. Sometimes if you pick them up by their back legs and give them a gentle swing that gets all that mucus out.

    If they are still covered in the bag and the mom isnt paying attention to it, rip it open clear out the mouth of mucus. If the animal is left in the bag to long it will just sufficate.

    Usally if a doe abandons a kid it is eaither she is over welmed (like lets say more than 3 kids), she is a first fresner and dosnt know what to do, or the mom can sense if something is wrong with the kid. It's like a 6th sense.

    In the wild if they held back to help the weekest kid or one that can't walk they are putting themselfs and the healthy kids in danger. It's their instinct to survive. It's not that the doe just dosnt like one kid it just happens that way.

  3. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    I'm so sorry for your loss. :hug: Yes, I used the horse wormer, my vet said it was ok. But, now I use the injectable (but you don't inject it, give it orally toward the back of their tongue).

    So, you don't live where your goats are kept? That has to be hard during kidding season. I don't like surprises. I had two does kid when I wasn't there...one doe gave birth to a single kid and all was fine. The other had twins, one was gone when I got there, the other was partly out of the sack, I saved that one. Both does were FF. I use a syringe type aspirator, like you use for human babies.

    Do you have other does kidding this season? Good luck!
  4. Club-Mini

    Club-Mini New Member

    Mar 31, 2008
    i know the mama left them....b/c they wouldn't nurse.
    the little guy...even after many hours couldn't stand up.
    so i know that she knew that something was wrong.

    here's my issue.
    and i didn't major in biology so someone pls help me out
    i have a baby nasal aspirator that i have used...but it didn't seem like i was making ANY progress
    the mucous just kept on coming out....and coming out and wouldn't stop...in tiny little pieces of course.

    ok...so do i go in thru the nose or the mouth??
    there was no mucous in his lungs...but he was choking.

    we tubbed him too cuz his belly looked like he was bloated....and some gas came out thru the tube.

    the first thing we did though was turn him upside down....and patted his chest but it just made it worse.
    then hubby did mouth to mouth....he would gasp for a breath and then not breathe at all.
    we were doing this for....well, it felt like an eternity.

    ALSO...i'm afraid that with the nasal aspirator i will collapse the lungs...it is possible, no?
    it seemed like if i squeezed it hard and it sucked out more...that it helped.
    but i was afraid to squeeze all the way .... again, not to collapse his lungs.

    sorry i'm all over the place..i'm still a bit frustrated and feel helpless.
    i've saved 4 babies already...
    one that i lost a month ago or so...came out of the momma the same way.
    gasping for air about every 15 seconds and completely limp.
    i did what i could and she just wouldn't breathe.

    in nature....does the mama lick out the stuff in their mouths/throats or do they swallow it??


    and no..i live about 3 minutes from the farm. we've been trying to fix that house ... to make it livable for half a year now....but with the economy and next to no money...construction has come to a hault and we haven't been able to move. there is no plumbiing at this point and half the walls are gone....we gutted it thinking we'd move in months ago.

  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    No you won't collaps the lungs.

    What happened was the kid was to long in the birth cannal so it started to try to breath (the imbilical cord detaches from the uterus and they have to breathe on their own) and he inhales the fluids in the sack.

    IF you have this happen again. Pick the kid up by its hind legs and SWING it back and forth (dont' worry about hurting it- you won't) do this vigeriously till you see stuff come out of its mouth. Pull it out and swing again. I did this 4 times with Storm and then I used the bolb asperator. And no you wont' collaps their lungs. Go down the throat and suck out as much as you can. Keep doing it till nothing comes out.

    Sounds like you need to add some selenium to their diet by way of selenium gel or BoSe shot. YOu give this a couple weeks before kidding. Also adding BOSS to their diet will help.

    THe moms aren't pushign hard enough to get the kids out fast and the kids have no sucking reflex -- a sign of selenium deficency.

    Also sounds like the moms could use soem added calcium as well. I suggest CMPK gel. They need this for strength as well as for milk production.

    I am sorry you lost the kids -- that is so sad :hug:
  6. Club-Mini

    Club-Mini New Member

    Mar 31, 2008
    Hey Stacey,


    you've helped me out a lot! and for that i'm very greatfull.
    my hubby was yelling at me that i will collapse the lungs and there was no time...seconds were flying...and he made me nervous...and i just didn't know what else to do...thats why he took over.
    but now that i know..i will do as you said.
    i know my mommies need selenium...and i have BoSe but i was warned that if i give it to them and they are not dificient then i will kill them. and i panicked. i figured i could give the kids a shot or the gel if they needed it at birth....figured it would be safer than killing mom.
    i will look for the CMPK stuff when i put in my order with jeffers this week.
    how much selenium should i give them? i have figured out the dosage per lbs. but i am still afraid of giving them that much...like i said...i'm a chicken and don't want to kill them.
    i had no idea that thats how they get the liquid in them. i figured they had the liquid inside the whole time. i am learing every day, i swear...but i wish my lack of knowlede didn't cost 3 lives.
    thanks Stacey again for your support.
  7. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    I use horse paste wormers a lot for my goats as I have horses and have left over wormer frequently. I have not used Zimectrin Gold and don't know what is in it. But you can take the ingredient per ml on the wormer package and determine how much is need for goats and look at the ml needed in other oral wormers used in goats. IE if the goat needs 5 mgs of a type of acive ingredient in that wormer then just give enough horse wormer to get 5 mgs of that ingredient into them.
    I actually like horse wormer as it sticks in the mouth better. Sometimes I have to put it into a syringe as the amount to be given is small enough that the weight markings are not accurate enough. And for plain Ivermectin, I use more than the wieght marking for the goats.

    I have heard some people remark that they don't use horse wormer because the are afraid that the active ingredient is not equally distributed in the the tube but since you use the same tube for a mini horse and a draft horse, the active ingredients must be equally present throughout the tube.
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    it is hard when people make you get panicked about killing your goat with love.

    most of the US is in a selenium deficent area so you won't kill them by giving the BoSe at all. If you are worried about it still you can get some Seleium Vit. E gel from Jeffers. THen you can give it a couple ccs at a time if it makes you nervous. 9times out of 10 they are deficent especially because of what you have experienced so far I would say they are.

    Before breeding as well give them some selenium this year.

  9. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Stacey's so right- goats are hard - even vets give a lot of wrong info on them because reasearch on animals is usually fiunded by commerical drug companies and goats were not thought to be money makers for them unlike cattle, horses and sheep. So info on goats is mainly work of mouth. And most products are not labled for them. Leaves you kind of hanging on knowing the right thing to do.
    Many many people's first step with goats includes a serious trip and fall so you are not alone. That is why I love web sites- you have to be careful about what info you use but it's a whole lot better than no info at all.
    Sometimes I have just taken my courage in my hand and done something against vet advice- and sometimes I have taken vet advice and wish I hadn't. When you want to do the right thing for your animals, it's soooooo hard.

    You sound like a person who does care enough to work your way through this- I'm sorry that you had to have this happen.
  10. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    Sorry your first goat experience was so bad. I have birthed several different animals, horses, dogs, pigs. But this was my first year for goats. We only lost 2. And they were stillborn. I just "let it go", they were already gone, nothing I could do about it, but, I think if you work on a kid for hours and still lose it, that's gotta be real hard. :hug: You have to console yourself that you did what you could, you learned, and next time will be better. I kept telling myself, 95% of goat births are uneventful.

    My advice, go through all the old posts in the kidding section, especially the ones were they had trouble. It's very informative. It will help you identify potential problems, maybe in time to do something, maybe not, but you'll be far better equipped to handle problems when you see them. Check out the website http://www.fiascofarm.com very informative site.