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If she were mine, I'd give b-complex sq as well. The research on how much b-complex actually makes it through their rumen for the goat to utilize is iffy; so, hate to give a shot, but hate more to think that I'm giving them vit b but it never gets to where they need it! Also don't bother with probiotics until you're done with penicillin. The kind of bacteria in the probiotics are gram-positive, so it's self-defeating until the course of antibiotics is over. Whatever the milk amount you'd expect her to drink today, replace that with electrolytes and offer it broken up similarly into small amounts.

You're doing a fantastic job! They've been very lucky to have you, and now your doeling is extremely lucky to have you!
 

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The research on how much b-complex actually makes it through their rumen for the goat to utilize is iffy;
As ever, I respect everything you say, but this... "Though adults have a stomach with four chambers and chew cuds, kids are monogastric and only use one stomach chamber for the first portion of their lives. During this time, kids do not ingest the same roughage as adult goats. This is because their rumen, reticulum, and omasum are not fully developed,..." found in this excellent article, https://www.thegoatspot.net/articles/digestive-development-in-kids.28/ would indicate that making certain the rumen is focused on less important than in older goats.

I don't think giving the shot will harm, but it isn't the same issue that it is with older goats and kids that have developed the rumen.
 
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Is there anything else to do to cover my bases? Any need for injected penicillin as well?
I don't see a need to inject some penicillin. Someone who knows better will come along and correct me I'm sure. But I think this is mainly a gut issue.

Coolbreeze, Even if this ends up not being what is weakening your little girl, nothing you are doing is hurting her. If you can think of anything else you've seen felt, or otherwise noticed, that might be pertinent, tell us. We'll crawl all over it.

Don't be afraid of the fortified vitamin B, either orally or injected. She'll pee it out if it is not utilized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
A little more history on the goat: she was found in field, hours after brother was found. Young mom, wouldn’t take care of them. Owner was disabled and had put milk in a pan for them before a neighbor asked me if I’d take them. I doubt any colostrum or navel care. I got them at more than 48 hrs of age, so I did not give colostrum. I had to wash them, as they were filthy. I cleaned the navel thoroughly with alcohol after the bath/drying with hair dryer.

Since the first dose of meds, she is still alert, but struggles to stand. After I fed her some pedialyte, I stood her up... she squatted a little to pee, then plopped down. She will try to stand up on her own, but I have admittedly rushed to assist her, so I don’t know if she would be able to get to standing.

I had to use human vitamin b complex pill, crushed. The TSC near me had no animal option. I did order some from Jeffers, but not here yet. I did look up the fortified b complex goat supplement ingredients, and calculated thiamine dose in 2cc. I gave the corresponding amount crushed in with the baking soda/water mix, just after the penicillin orally.

Sibling is doing great. FKS is NOT contagious, correct? I also have 7 NGD doelings that are kept separate outside. No interaction yet, and I’m washing hands frequently.

Thank you all!
 

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No FKS is not contagious.

Do you have a vet you could ask for assistance? With the possibility of no colostrum intake, she could have the starts of pneumonia or some other disease starting.

To perk up goats, I mix warm, strong caffeinated coffee with Karo Syrup (or you could mix it with the gatorade or whatever it is you have replaced the milk with, and feed it to them. That usually helps. Maybe some Vitamin C and echinacea to help boost her immune system.
 
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I'm completely shocked your TSC did not have fortified B complex. Just dumbfounded. Here is the link with the SKU# if you ever want to take it in, make CERTAIN they do not have this. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-hi-level-vitamin-b-complex?cm_vc=-10005

OK, the stuff they label "fortified" is online order only. This one says "High Level" but it is the same level of thiamine.

I think you are doing great, quick thinking with the pill! To my knowledge it is not contagious, but since we do not know for absolute certain-sure she has FKS, you taking these precautions is priceless insurance. Well done.

You are a rock star.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I actually asked the store manager to double check... they showed one of the “high level” in stock, but couldn’t find on shelf or in back... I tried really hard to breathe and smile.....

Will add some Karo. I actually don’t drink coffee, so none in house (I don’t think I’ll try my husband’s Red Bull on her!) :) I’ll throw in a little powdered vit C too. Great idea.

I’m calling around to find goat-friendly vet. Still looking.
 

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You are doing good.

I definitely would get a vet involved. Tell them what you have done so far.

Floppy kid, do not inject PenG.

Are you giving RX thiamine? If not, for floppy kid to be treated, it must be thiamine injectable or high level vit B or fortified vit B complex. The two are not RX and have 100 mg thiamine in it.
 

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I found this product. I have never used it, so I do not know what level of thiamine it has. The single review said it was fortified. The front of the package says fortified.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-vitamin-b-complex-oral-gel?rfk=1

Do you have ANY other feed stores around, at all??? Someone must have what you need.

I hear your frustration with not finding a vet. Keep trying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
View media item 2564
I went in to feed them...the girl was standing, started talking to me. Beautiful sight. She got quite upset at the pedialyte, so I caved and gave her some milk... is that ok? She ate better than she has (6oz). She got very tired after and went to sleep. Temp 103.7 now, but looks better. I added a picture from just now. This is the same as how she looked last night when I thought there was curvature... Now, she seemed to limp, not putting weight on RIGHT front leg, but her left is the one that looks weird to me? They seemed symmetric this morning. Maybe just from weakness with standing? When I check range of motion, they are the same.

Brother active as ever. Temp 102.5. Started breathing fast (but happy) after he ate (he always gets a bit raspy after his bottle, but hasn't breathed like this before. Yes, I keep bottle vertical, so he has to stretch neck upward to eat). Will monitor him. He has had slightly loose stools ever since his enemas for constipation a few days ago, but good appetite and nibbling hay and goat chow.

I think these two may result in the loss of my sanity! Good thing they're so dang cute and loving!
 

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In the middle of chores, so just a quick answer. I would not have fed her milk until the fks treatment was done. but I've never had fks before.

No, that is the incorrect way to hold a bottle. the neck whould be stretched more forward, not straight up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Ok, thanks. Th bottle is vertical but his head is about 60 degree angle... I’ll focus on the stretch forward next feed. Thx!
 

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OK, I'm back until I have to carry firewood. I can't see what you want us to see in media, it says I don't have permission.

I'm so sorry you are having these issues. I feel certain if you could get your hands on some proper fortified vitamin B complex she'd feel peppier and have a better suck reflex. Then, as @TexasGoatMan suggested, you could deal with the leg matter. But not if she is continually weakening.

All I can do is encourage you to keep treating for the FKS, and do the vitamin D as we keep looking for the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
She is definitely trending better through today. My husband will be going to the next town over in the morning for the fortified B vitamins. She had straight pedialyte just now, and took it better. I had my husband compare your pics to how I was holding the babies - he said I was just about the angles as pictured, so I guess I described my technique poorly. Thanks for all the help!
 

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The angle of the bottle in the pictures, and the angle of the throat and head, is nearly horizontal, not vertical in the least.

This is important because you want the liquid to go into the right place, not a problematic place such as the lungs (raspy breathing)

When they are older, you will want to still do this, when you worm, or drench, or bolus, or give a gel supplement. That mostly horizontal line stays important in keeping the throat open and directing things where they need to go.

That needed angle is why giving kids milk in a pan is a problem. The milk does not go where it needs to go.

This is the only reason I'm making a thing about this. I'm not a control freak about making people hold a bottle the way "I" like it. Really. Were it not for me causing an aspiration death, I would not care. Really.

I'm glad, beyond glad, to hear she seems to be gaining ground. YAY!!!!
 

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Floppy Kid Syndrome, also known by the acronym of FKS, is a condition that occurs within 3 to 10 days after birth to young kids and is characterized by profound muscle weakness and a kid that is reluctant to nurse. FKS can often be fatal if not detected and treated early. Such treatment includes the oral administration of sodium bicarbonate and/or the tube feeding of milk. More severe cases need to be treated with isotonic intravenous 1.3% sodium bicarbonate solution. Dramatic clinical improvement is noted after administration of intravenous fluids. There appears to be no association found between the treatment with a variety of antibiotics or vitamin / mineral supplements and clinical response. FKS is often confused with a weak kid at birth syndrome - one should note that FKS appears at least 3 days after birth and not necessarily at birth.
 
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