A buck with fur problem acting strange

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by rolhun, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. rolhun

    rolhun New Member

    15
    Feb 26, 2019
    Hungary
    I have a saanen buck whom I'm affraid of. I own him since last september, and noticed some change in his fur.
    He have two abrasion spots at the beginning of his tail. It doesn't seems too bad, but I had a buck before, who had the same spots, and eventually his condition went that bad (loss of fur and a lot of weight) I lost him. I don't want to experience that again. Vets thereabout usually say: if his appetite is good and doesn't have fever, he will be ok.

    So, the symptoms he has:
    1. the aforementioned spot in his fur
    2. he started to act really passive in the last week
    3. he has a reddish ring on one of his horn. Earlier he was playful and sometimes stuck his horn here and there (eg. under the door) but he always managed to escape without injuries; When this ring appeared I examined it:
    • there was no bleeding
    • it doesn't hurt him, he uses it like before and don't act strange when I touch it.
    • its temperature is the same than his other horn's

    Symptoms he doesn't have:
    • fever
    • defecation problems - his droppings are totally normal in color and shape
    • snotty or too dry nose
    • eye/sight problems
    • gum/teeth problems
    • any visible parasite

    I feed them with hay, oat, corn, and clean vegetable remains. They always have fresh water and salt (with selenium). I think his previous owner messed up his rear hoofs a bit, but the vet said he will be fine.
    He shares his place with a doe who doesn't have any problems. I don't think his horn and fur problem are related.

    My question is: what can cause his fur loss and how I can test him against it?
     
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  2. Dwarf Dad

    Dwarf Dad Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the forum! Would your vet do a complete blood count test to check his overall health?
     
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  3. Dwarf Dad

    Dwarf Dad Well-Known Member

  4. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    You mentioned he does not have a fever - but what is his rectal temperature anyhow?

    Because you are located in Hungary, I'm not sure if the same types of parasites affect goats as here in the United States. But have you noticed him having weakness in his hind legs or tripping over his back toes? Do the spots near his tail look dry and scabby or red? Are they round? Does he chew at them often? Are there other spots of fur sticking up on his sides like he is chewing at them?

    It sounds like he cracked his horn, how close to his head is the "red ring"? The red is blood, correct? If he does not seem to be in pain when you touch the area it is probably okay but the concern would be in warm summer months if flies can lay eggs in the cracked horn and cause an infection. Hopefully it is winter in Hungary right now.

    Is he a good healthy weight, or do his spine or hips or ribs feel sharp when you run your hands over?
     
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  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  6. rolhun

    rolhun New Member

    15
    Feb 26, 2019
    Hungary
    Thank you for all your answers!
    Dwarf Dad, I will call the vet tomorrow. It's likely he/she will not come at this week. They are usually not concerned about goats.
    The selenium toxicity is a good tip, at least I can remove the salt from them until the vet arrives.

    SalteyLove, his temperature was normal, about 39 °C, I will measure it tomorrow morning.
    He can walk nicely, maybe a bit weaker than last week, but nothing unusual. He just lie more than he used to be and acts slower than usual. Even staring at objects (like the symptom at selenium toxicity).
    I took some picture about him, you can check the spots. I don't see other spots on his body, only at his hind side.
    ferismall-tail-right.jpg ferismall-tail-left.jpg ferismall-horn.jpg

    I think he is in good shape, I can feel his ribs, but not sharply.
    ferismall-full.jpg
     
  7. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    He looks like he could use some copper and maybe a hoof trim. He sort of stands funny on his back legs. But, he is a nice looking goat.
     
  8. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    I don't know what to say about his listlessness. The horn looks like he got it caught somewhere and had to use some force to get it out. If he has a bad headache that could cause listlessness. The spots in the fur look like mites to me. That is an area that mites in my herd have shown up at before. Can you ask your vet about that?

    Once mites get a party started, they don't usually like to stop on their own. Usually the police (medicine) needs to be called in.
     
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  9. rolhun

    rolhun New Member

    15
    Feb 26, 2019
    Hungary
    Goats Rock, i will ask the vet about copper bolus. His hoof was like that when I bought him. His former owner offered me he can trim the goat's hoof and I was happy to accept it. I noticed the goat's "funny" movement later and called a vet for him. He didn't correct it and said he will be fine. It seems they don't care of our goats minor problems until they become serious problems.

    mariarose, I can try to identify mites on him. Last autumn the doe had biting lice. I had treated her with Neostomosan and Biokill for their shed. It was succesful.
    We are at the end of the winter here. As far as I know mites spawn when the weather is cold, also mineral deficiency is more likely at the end of the winter.

    For the minerals I mix this supplement with their forage. It adds the following minerals to their diet (ordered by proportion):
    Fe, Ca, K, Mg, Na, Zn, Sn, Ti, B, Li, Co, Se, Ga. Unfortunately copper is not present.

    For the mites I can treat him with Neostomosan too, but it's too cold here for a bath. I need to wait for 2-3 weeks from now. It can be enough time for a vet to come :)
     
  10. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    Very, very welcome! Very nice to have a goat friend in Hungary as well! :)

    Oh, urgent chores! I will be back!
     
  11. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    Oh, dear, that goat looks as if he really needs help! But I am, like several others, bewildered as to what might be wrong. He stands funny, as if feeling bad. Head ache? Could be. Or feeling sick, or stomach ache, maybe. The fur looks to me like some parasites, maybe microscopic ones. It looks as if it itches. Scabies??

    I can see nothing wrong with his hoofs so far. I guess you have already looked at the underside of the hoofs?

    It seems to me as if our new member here at the Goat Spot (Welcome, as we have already said!) has a good contact with her animal, and has reacted on a change in behaviour.

    I am very sad to hear that the vets you have there do not care much about goats. I have sometimes met the same problem, so we must try our best by ourselves!

    I would not withdraw salt, rather offer more kinds of salt and minerals, if I suspect unbalance in the minerals. They most often know by themselves what they need from salt and minerals.

    The hay he chews on looks okay, even if it is perhaps not of the highest nutrition. But he has the hay in his mouth, and still seems to be uninterested in it, in spite of much room in his belly. Something is wrong, for sure. But what?

    A damage that causes pain could of course look like that. I suppose that you have already stroked him all over in search for sore spots? If not, do that! I fear it is worse than a broken rib. You said he got passive rather suddenly? Is there a chance that he got some kind of "violence" against his body? Maybe at the same time as his horn got damaged?

    I wish we could help you more. (I never before heard of a saanen with horns, he looks like a cross breed between saanen and some rural breed. Very nice. Only one year old?)
     
  12. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    One more thought: Is that a fish tail, those of you who have seen such?
     
  13. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Are all Saanens in Sweden polled?
    I'm interested in how you can tell that from a still? To me he only looks as if he's eating but not feeling well.
    He does need copper. It isn't a fishtail yet, but looks like one is developing.
    That's a long time to wait. If it is mites, they'll love you. Is there any way you can put the neostomosan on and around the areas needing treatment, rather than the entire goat, for right now?

    Do you have access to the dewormer, Ivermectin, in the injectable form? If so, an injection under the skin is very effective for surface parasites. It would need to be repeated in 10 days.
     
  14. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    I never heard of a Saanen with horns. Now you made me look it up, and there! a buck with horns! Thank you, I learnt something new today!

    To me it looks as if he is just holding the hay in the mouth. But, we agree that it looks as if he is not feeling well.

    Very good you informed us about the tail, mariarose!

    If you use Ivermectin, rolhun, beware of letting a Border Collie or Berner Sennen eat the droppings of the goat afterwards! It is dangerous for that kind of dogs.
     
  15. rolhun

    rolhun New Member

    15
    Feb 26, 2019
    Hungary
    Thank you again for all your responses!


    I examined him (even with magnifier) again, searching for injuries and scabies. I pushed gently all of his body surface and he didn't show any sign of pain (yell, yawn, tooth grind). It was hard to see his skin, because he still has his winter coat. Btw the lower level of his coat is thick and healthy, except at the tail.

    Sure, I looked under the hoofs. They are ok, but I schedule a trimming for both of them on the weekend. I mean no inflamation, cracks or strange color.

    Definietly. We keep them like others keep dogs or cats :)

    That's what I did. I have a block of himalayan salt, and I gave them that. It turn out to be a pretty good idea, they licked that all afternoon :)

    You've got the point! That is my last batch of hay, it's really dry and old now. I think this can be the root cause of this problem. Bad hay -> no willing to eat it. He put it in his mouth, and rarely chewed it. I planned to buy new hay for them in the next month, but it seemed like I cant wait any longed. I bought them 2 blocks of alfalfa, and gave them a portion. His appetite improved immediately.

    They often "play" with each other and with their environment.. but I didn't find any injury on him.

    You (and all of you) already helped me a lot. He is clearly a rural breed, also he have a strong saanen habit. He changed his first pair of teeth on november, so he is a bit older than 1 year.

    Unfortunately I can't buy copper bolus at the nearby stores, but I will travel tommorow to the capital and will try to buy it along with the neostomosan.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  16. rolhun

    rolhun New Member

    15
    Feb 26, 2019
    Hungary
    It was a fairly good weather today. No wind, sunshine, 17 °C (62 °F). I think I can give him a bath on friday morning if the weather will be at least this good. He will have enough time to dry in the sunshine.
     
  17. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    Yes, goats are wonderful pets if we only let them! :inlove:

    With that examination you would have found a broken rib or a big bruise.

    Licking the himalayan salt all afternoon? I would suspect they seek for some mineral, why not copper? (How do I now refind the thread with the goats in Ecuador?)

    But sometimes goats simply like the joy of something new!

    The hay is a bit pale (the rain has diluted much of the nutrition during harvest) but it does not look moldy on the photo. Was the female interested in that hay?

    One injury you did find - the red ring on his horn!

    Now I go searching for the Ecuador thread!
     
  18. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
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  19. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    One more thought: Could he have a tooth issue? Is he interested in food that is hard to chew, like a carrot, or a nice twig?
     
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  20. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden