A Buying Nightmare...

Discussion in 'Meat Market' started by HoosierShadow, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    So I have to rant. I am kicking myself big time, and rightly so, I seriously am sick over it to be honest.

    I contacted a breeder inquiring about a buck kid they had posted a pic on FB post where someone was looking for a buck. The breeder sent me more pics and a video - he looked great. I asked how old the video was and was told 10 days. I loved the pedigree, outstanding, and we were super excited to go get him after making a deal.
    Breeder was away at show, they are big breeders but I'd never had any dealings with them before, but had heard good things.

    We go to get him yesterday, and he looks nothing like the pictures and video - nowhere near as nice, big hay belly, not as level and definitely not show quality. not knowing what to do we brought him home. He is 'ok' but not at all what we were expecting.
    On top of that, he has mites severely on his front feet and starting on his back end and scrotum. I feel so horrible for him because it's not his fault. He's just a baby, 3 months old, but not show quality.
    My goat friends that I've consulted with agree - he absolutely does not look like the same goat at all from the pics/video that I was sent - he was younger and much nicer. My very good neighbor who has goats came over and inspected him and agreed, for the $$ he is not nice.

    I asked breeder this morning if we can return for a refund. They said they typically do not take returns on bucks, and that we could exchange for something else, but they would be older and more expensive. I kindly messaged back that I would consider looking at them, but right now my kids/family are very discouraged and my kids do not have more $$ to spend.

    What do you guys think? I mean... I am not a big breeder, but if someone wasn't happy with a goat I sold I would tell them to bring it back especially if I sold it right away. If it had been a couple of weeks, and the animal was in poor condition, I might reconsider.

    I am so upset over this. I will refrain from posting who the breeder is or photos of the goat in case we can reach an agreement, but never in 10 years have we been so disappointed with a buck purchase.
     
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  2. bisonviewfarm

    bisonviewfarm Well-Known Member

    Apr 2, 2015
    CO
    Oh no I'm so sorry. I hope this all gets worked out. :( I'm the same as you I'd happily take something back if the buyer wasn't happy. But also not a big breeder
     
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  3. CCCSAW

    CCCSAW Well-Known Member

    524
    Jul 11, 2019
    California
    Oh heck no. If he's not the one in the pictures he's not the one you thought you where buying. Where is the kid they showed you?
     
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  4. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    The quality just isn't there :( Same kid, but huge difference! He might be a nice buck later, but is not show quality, and we think he breaks behind the shoulders and is not as level as he was made out to look :(
     
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  5. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    Oh no! I’m sorry to hear this.

    This is a very a tricky situation. Biosecurity is a huge reason why many people will not allow the return of animals. Which is very understandable IMO.

    However, what exactly do they mean by “exchange”? Would they actually take the buck back?

    Either way, I would take good quality pictures and videos of said buck ASAP to protect yourself.
     
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  6. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    That’s awful, I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. I probably wouldn’t have taken him, and asked for a refund due to health issues if you’d put a deposit down. I can see why they wouldn’t take him back for biosecurity reasons once he left the farm.

    If it was a bait and switch, they knew they were doing you dirty and they’re not likely to take him back. Hopefully they will work with you.
     
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  7. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    You’ve really got to watch out in pictures. So much deception with creative clipping jobs, posing on unlevel ground, over stretching them, etc. The ones that kill me are the pics of bucklings peeing. I’m surprised they were able to cover things up in the video.
     
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  8. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Oh boy. They are definitely in the wrong. I don’t see why people do that. I would rather not upsetting someone and wasting their day to look at a animal they would be unhappy with. But to be honest I probably would not take him back, and as stated because of biosecurity reasons. But I would have refunded any deposit if you had placed one or given a deal on something better. But it doesn’t sound like that is the breeders concern with giving the option to take him and sell a more expensive buck. It sounds like they got you hooked and if they take him back want it to be worth it.
    But is he not show quality because he needs some TLC or is he simply not show quality? I have seen some amazing turn arounds on some need TLC animals. If maybe he just needs some TLC it might just be worth it to hang onto him and give him some time rather then fight with this breeder or try and trade him in. Either way I am so very sorry for the whole situation.
     
  9. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks everyone, I've taken videos and pictures. I understand Biosecurity, but honestly it would make me laugh in this situation because I know they constantly are bringing in new goats, going to shows, and the well, I'll just leave it at that for now.

    I agree about the photo shopping. He didn't look photoshopped in the pics and he looked great in the videos, but the video and current are far from similar. I said we wanted show quality, I could have kept shopping and found something in our price range, I didn't have to have the pedigree and color.

    I agree Jessica - I don't understand the thought behind taking him back and trying to give me a more expensive buck. I don't want a more expensive buck. We want a show quality buck that is worth what we paid - not meaning on paper I don't care how many ennoblements are on the page if the goat isn't playing the part.
     
  10. Nigerian dwarf goat

    Nigerian dwarf goat Well-Known Member

    Sep 24, 2017
    Texas
    Wow, I am so sorry :(
    Personally, as a breeder, I work as honestly as I can because like my dad told me: "You can do 1 million jobs perfectly, but when you do 1 job wrong, that's all everyone will hear about"

    Honestly, I say I would not have taken him, but if I was put in your position, I probably would have, because I try my hardest to be polite, even if that means biting my tongue. Usually, when I buy babies, they are pretty skinny, but I keep my mouth shut and just load em with Calf Manna when they get home. It gets annoying, but oh well, what're ya gonna do?

    I really don't have any info for you though! I feel so bad for you and your kids!
     
  11. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thank you, I am the same way. I want people to be happy with what they buy from us. I think this guy could have potential, but I worry about him structurally and if he'll have a good strong topline and doesn't break behind the shoulders. I've had such great support from friends and here on TGS, I appreciate it. If we end up having to make him a project I will share pictures. I want to get him out and give him a good scrubbing bath tomorrow and trim his feet (I'll get before pictures), so if he does go back, he'll go back better than when I got him. I don't think we'll do an exchange.
    Once I know the outcome and if we are stuck with him, then I'll share pictures.
     
  12. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    Sounds like they were too busy to notice how he's gone down hill. They should be very interested in taking him back to make sure you were happy. Breeders will quickly loose future sales if they didnt work with unhappy buyers. I like that you took pictures and videos and got eye witnesses to confirm his poor quality. I really hope the seller does right by you.
     
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  13. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki
    Oh no! I am so sorry. But always remember this..... when you go to possibly pick up an animal... if they are not what you saw pics and videos of and not what you wanted. You do NOT have to buy them.
    ;(. Do you feel badly for that? Absolutely. But if it is not what you want then it just isnt.

    That said. I hope for you all that this breeder does the right thing and refunds your money. Either takes the lil guy back or you keep him and just process him later. I understand the biosecurity but you said they constantly bring in new stock... so this should not be an issue with them.
     
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree, if I didn't like him when I seen him, I would politely say, I will have to pass on him and be on my way.

    It wasn't right of the breeder to give a false picture of this buck.
    There is no reason to purchase something of which is not what was presented. You were not obligated to buy.

    That said, I know this makes you feel worse. I am sorry this happened to you.

    I can understand why they will not take the goat back. However, telling you to buy one which is out if your price range, was a stupid thing to even say to you.

    You can try to get him in better shape, then try to recoup some of your money and sell him.
    I agree, if his conformation is bad like you are explaining, those things usually do not correct.

    Word will get around and the breeder may regret doing this to you later on down the road.
     
  15. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks, I appreciate it. Yes, totally my mistake for bringing him home. He isn't horrible, but definitely not what we were expecting at all. I have not heard back from the breeder at all and after talking with some friends including Jessica, I think we may give him a chance, we can get him into shape, and see where we are - breed him to the does we intended him for, and if we don't like him enough... sell him. See what kids are like and sell them to recoup $$ if we don't want to keep any. I do think they have too much going on to look after each goat.

    Apparently we now have a currently way over priced project with current condition.

    My husband will be furious with my decision, but it is what it is...

    He just turned 3 months old a week ago, and feet were in bad need of trimming. he needs groceries which I did expect that. I will run a fecal on him tonight.

    This is what we were expecting...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The night we brought him home
    [​IMG]

    Today. He is not awful. But not what we thought, his huge belly is going down a bit, but he's super awkward. I know a lot of it is growing stage, he has muscle, but needs groceries - I expected that part, but huge difference between the video especially and what is current.

    [​IMG]

    Pre bath (dirty from applying Vaseline/Nustock the night we got him home).
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I forgot to get a 'clean' picture. I sprayed him down with Permethrin after scrubbing a bunch of scabs loose and soaking his legs. Blow dried, then applied Ivermectin pour on down the back, and on the legs, then lathered him in NuStock
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Good potential for muscling IMO, just needs the feed which I was told he needs to be fed up. I mean, I don't expect show condition, but huge difference between pics/video then add in the horrible mite issue which now I will treat the goats, and barn - we do deal with mites randomly, but never sold one with a mite issue that I was aware of.

    [​IMG]

    So... this is where we are. Not horrible, needs TLC. Pedigree is amazing so we'll see what happens.
     
  16. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Hey..Im sorry for your disapointment. I dont like the videos/ pics all dressed up. Im sure his thick winter baby hair was alot of hus thickness. Now he is at an akward growth spurt. I have no doubts, in 30 days, he will look better than he ever did. He may not ever be the show king you wanted. But he carries the potential in him. Look at your does and see what his potential and your abilities will create. You have an amazing ability to put weight on your "babies"
    Thats why others & myself keep our possibles till they are 6 months. Thats about how long it takes to see whats really packed into that tiny frame. If you honestly wanted his bloodlines, you have them. Its a good year to have one that may not be show ready. There arent any shows right now
    Give yourself some time. If he was there once, he will get their again.
     
  17. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks Moers I greatly appreciate it. I will say, he has grown on me, especially after losing that crazy hay belly. He looked like a balloon. He's a bit sunken in but hasn't eaten his grain real well. I started giving him some of our feed today and he seems to love it. In fact, he doesn't want the feed he came with which is crazy because it's one of the best Boer goat feed in the country! Like.. he won't even eat our feed if it's mixed in with his so I have to separate it. Strange kid! I'm giving him probiotics daily, so hopefully that helps in case I can't get him to eat his feed. But then we have a whole bag of the feed.
    I honestly didn't expect him to be ready to go out and win a show, I think honestly I was upset with the massive belly, he didn't look nice and smooth from front to back, but most definitely the mites and long feet. He couldn't stand right on his feet because they were overgrown and curled under. The mites are severe, you can see the swelling. He did have hair on him in the video, but when he moved he looked stocky under the hair, and very level. IMO his back dips and I worry as he gets older he could start to break a little - praying I'm worrying for nothing.
    But the darn mites... he is favoring a foot because it hurts :(
     
  18. Nigerian dwarf goat

    Nigerian dwarf goat Well-Known Member

    Sep 24, 2017
    Texas
    Hey! I have those rubber boots! ;)
     
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  19. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    I actually like him! He isn’t perfect, but I think he has a lot of potential. Once he fills out, he should be something nice. The slight sickle hocks are what catches my eye more so than his topline. He could be going through a funky growth spurt. We have a couple 4 month olds coming out of one right now.

    I am not sure if they washed and fluffed him in the pictures and video you were given, but I wouldn’t be surprised if so. Fluffy fat goats are what wins shows, unfortunately.

    I’d give him a chance. Is he underweight or small for his age or just right? Hard to tell with pictures.
     
  20. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki
    I just cannot fathom selling anything that i KNOW i have not taken really good care of.... hooves and mites! Grrrrr! That makes me ANGRY for you. The last thing i do before anyone leaves here is ask if the buyer needs learn how to trim hooves... if so i show them on one foot and they do the other three. Or if they know how i trim in front of them. It usually only takes a few min for something so important to a goat. And the mites... there is just no excuse for that. Have the buyer come in two weeks for them so i can treat instead of sending a mite ridden baby to their new home and “infecting” the new owners place. I am just so sorry for you! He is a handsome lil guy.... to me a non boer person anyway. ;).
     
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