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Goat Crazy!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK. I just tested my does - no diseases here. Huzzah!

However, we are quite seriously considering breeding our does with a buck (or maybe 2 bucks) that are housed with another buck who is CAE positive.

The other farm and I share the same vet. He (the vet) is of the conviction that CAE cannot pass through semen and infect the doe.

Another very reputable breeder in the area has actually used the infected buck (incredible genetics) to breed 5 of his does. He is not worried at all about transmission.

I also found this article from the USDA: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/emergingissues/downloads/prcaevinfosheet.pdf

It suggests that semen doesn't seem to carry or transmit CAE. ie. "Can CAEV be transmitted in semen? CAEV was isolated from parts of the semen of experimentally infected bucks in 1998. However, it must be emphasized that the infection in these bucks was experimental, not natural. One year later in 1999, it was shown that semen from naturally infected bucks can become contaminated with CAEV. At the present time, there is no evidence that bucks transmit the infection to does via semen, but an appropriate level of caution must be taken by producers when using natural or assisted reproduction with semen from seropositive bucks. As pointed out earlier, transmission between bucks and does may take place by routes other than semen, and those routes of transmission (e.g., close contact) may lead to more new infections than the semen route."

So...Considering that we are not using the positive buck, but using one of his pen mates and that this will be a controlled driveway breeding, Do you foresee any special precautions we should take?
 

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I'm a major worry wart when it comes to disease, so personally, I wouldn't risk it. I would probably consider it, if it was AI, but with live coverage, it just seems more risky. But that's just me.
 
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Not off hand, no. I can't think of a huge problem. If the genetics are worth the slight chance to you, well, then they are worth it. Genetics are genetics.

Now if it was Larry the Cable Goat, from The Trailer Park Billies, ehh... maybe not... Those may not be the genetics you are willing to risk your girls for...

No one can make such a subjective decision for another breeder. If the genetics were what I wanted, I'd do it. If they weren't, then I wouldn't.

The risk is super low, so... Assess the genetics first, THEN the risk, is my motto. I have it stamped on my coinage.
 

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Well I think I remember reading that the CAE virus works similar to the AIDS virus in humans, and AIDS can be transmitted through sexual activity. So, I would say NOPE! Not on my doe lol!

But if you are gung ho for that buck, I would make sure you are ready to cull or sell the doe eventually and plan on raising the kids on CAE prevention as a worst case scenario. But that's worst case scenario.
 

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If you decide to, (which is a really low risk), my only concern would be the normal buck behavior of the licking and sniffing when he is doing the deed. (Saliva). But, since the Buck is not a CAE+, in my mind, the entire driveway breeding is pretty safe.

You would be more at risk at the county fair.
 

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Goat Crazy!
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for your input, everyone. I really appreciate it! I don't want to jump in and do something stupid. But I also don't want to be paranoid if it is not warranted.
 

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I did accidently before. Wasnt told that he was positive and the breeder was a mentor so I didnt think much of it. I wouldnt again. Not worth the risk
 

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I just re read your original post and saw that you'll be using a pen mate of the CAE+ buck, not the actual positive buck. However, one thing to consider when it comes to stud service: Does the breeder require ALL does that breed with their bucks to be fully tested (CAE, CL, and Johne's) and recently tested with no borderline results? Because if they don't, then how can you be confident that the buck you choose won't be infected with something that he can pass on to your doe? How aggressive was the breeder in asking you about showing your test results and how open were they with sharing theirs on their whole herd?

This is just my 2 cents, but I'm very aggressive about making sure that any doe that comes on my property to breed with any of my bucks has been tested. I've had to turn down about half of the people interested because they test borderline. So imagine how many people who don't test have borderline goats when the ones that were confident enough to test for me ended up borderline and were surprised. This was even after retesting a second time that these goats came up borderline.
 

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Goat Crazy!
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I just re read your original post and saw that you'll be using a pen mate of the CAE+ buck, not the actual positive buck. However, one thing to consider when it comes to stud service: Does the breeder require ALL does that breed with their bucks to be fully tested (CAE, CL, and Johne's) and recently tested with no borderline results? Because if they don't, then how can you be confident that the buck you choose won't be infected with something that he can pass on to your doe? How aggressive was the breeder in asking you about showing your test results and how open were they with sharing theirs on their whole herd?

This is just my 2 cents, but I'm very aggressive about making sure that any doe that comes on my property to breed with any of my bucks has been tested. I've had to turn down about half of the people interested because they test borderline. So imagine how many people who don't test have borderline goats when the ones that were confident enough to test for me ended up borderline and were surprised. This was even after retesting a second time that these goats came up borderline.
I appreciate your concern. The breeder is a neighbor with some very nice ADGA Nigerians and she was VERY upfront with me and has all her test results right at hand for me to see. She also specifically wants to see the results on my does.

I'm also quite familiar with the positive buck and I know his back story.
 

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I think the only thing I would be worried about if I did this and I was totally against breeding to a CAE positive goat is, how often does she test the bucks? I also don’t know the question to this but how much blood could infect another goat? It’s not uncommon in my bucks when they get back together after being apart to majorly butt heads and sometimes to the point both are bleeding a little on their heads.
Even then I think Mariarose nailed it big time! If it’s worth the risk go for it! For me it’s the creepy stuff that can’t be tested for like STDs and stuff that keeps me from outside breeding. But it doesn’t sound like there is a huge risk. I would no matter if he was tested yesterday or 5 years ago just make sure there is no open wounds on him. If you REALLY want to play it safe there is always CAE prevention too. That way if by some chance it went badly at least you still have clean kids.
 

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That's a good point about the blood from head butting. Just a few days ago I came into the goat pen and saw one of my wethers with dried blood all over his face, head and shoulder. I was like OMG! WHAT HAPPENED!? And then I realized that his brother had just popped off a scur while they were play headbutting. His head was all bloody but it had stopped bleeding already. Lol!

I guess there's a million things you can come up with to worry about in this situation!
 

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Oh I’m sure If anyone puts their mind to it they can think of a million things that could be “if the stars align just right there’s a 1% chance” lol but everyone can also do that with everything they do if they really think about it.
 

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Oh I'm sure If anyone puts their mind to it they can think of a million things that could be "if the stars align just right there's a 1% chance" lol but everyone can also do that with everything they do if they really think about it.
Yes, that is my superpower.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
:reading:We're going over tomorrow or Saturday so my daughter (she owns our breeding does) can meet the boys and make a decision. We'll also snag a buck rag while were there because these girls are keeping me guessing.

I'll see how much fighting and jostling the boys do. I'll be VERY aware of blood and wounds!!

Annnnnd, I'll do more research because that's how I roll.

I know the breeder tests yearly - and she doesn't pool blood, she tests each individual goat. She's also been paying for extra testing all 'round since the positive buck has been on her property.
 
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