A Question for all those Show Wether People

Discussion in 'Show Circuit' started by badnewsboers, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Ok, so typically I don't show wethers. I'm a total wuss and get attached. But I'm getting to the age where I won't be able to show wethers for much longer so I want to give it another go. The wether circuit is very competitive and I really want to be in the running. Any tips for me?

    I plan on feeding a high protein feed and giving him probiotics and electrolytes. I'm going to build a high feeder that will work his rear as he eats. I plan on giving him B12 shots weekly. And I was debating investing in show shake as a topdress but I haven't decided if it is worth it. I was also told to feed alfalfa.

    I get to see my possible show wether this weekend. I'm really excited because he is off of one of my old show does and the Hammerhead buck. And she is off a doe known for producing hard muscled kids. I saw the wether when he was younger and didn't handle him but handled his sister. That little doe had the hardest muscles I've ever felt!
     
  2. Just Kiddin'

    Just Kiddin' New Member

    200
    Nov 18, 2008
    Southern California
    LOL When it comes to the show circuit you're going to have a hard time getting anyone to REALLY tell you their secrets to success. Everyone has their own little tricks but getting anyone to share them with you is really the trick in itself LOL.
    I don't usually share how or what I feed and my feeds go to the shows in plain bags. I will say that what you said about feeding alfalfa is a big no no for us and our market goats :wink:
     

  3. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    I love honor feed yes it high in price, but I never feed more then a lb a day. We use honor top dress starting 45 days before fair. I feed alfalfa hay. Tracking is the best exercise for goats or sheep in my opinion. My two girls got heavy weight champion and res heavy weight champion at last year fair. The judge told us told if the heavy champion had been 10 lb lighter he would have gotten grand or res. grand. He was very surprise to hear both goats had been held at 100lb for over a month because they both felt fresh and not stale. The goats that beat us where nice goat and from a very high end breeder so we where happy to be at the top with them. B-12 paste on the day of show is great helps keep the going under stress and keeps that energy up in the ring especially if you have to go back in the ring more then once. http://www.sullivansupply.com/Texas/det ... x?ID=12244. Shelly
     
  4. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    why give B12 injections every week?
     
  5. Just Kiddin'

    Just Kiddin' New Member

    200
    Nov 18, 2008
    Southern California
    I think a lot of people use B12 for appetite and energy. I know it's used A LOT with the show cattle. I don't know why you would use it for goats though. I'm pretty set in how we raise our show wethers but that's a little too extreme for me LOL. We've never used it in our show cattle either and don't see any difference in those who do. :shrug:
     
  6. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    I havent ever fed alfalfa hay to show steers or wethers.

    Reasons being:

    1. It will make their fat yellow and we get penalised for this on the carcase judging
    2. I am just too scared to give boys alfalfa routinely (more than just a treat every now and then) because of urinary calculi - I've had some bad experiences with it. Combine the alfalfa with a high grain diet in a feedlot wether - many of which are castrated at birth or very early - seems like big trouble to me.
     
  7. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Yeah, everyone is secretive over what they feed and I hate it. If I had a ration that finished my goats and made them look their best I wouldn't withhold it from anyone. I'd want everyone to feed something that worked for their goats. Their's only one breeder that is forthright with what he feeds and we share info baxck and forth. Even one of my best friends who raises goats doesn't share everything she feeds.

    It really stinks because I was feeding showrite and everyone looked amazing on it. But the local hubbard plant closed down and I can't get it anymore. And I've looked at the Honor feed and was very interwested in the topdress but couldn't find a dealer around here.

    Giving B12 is no different in my eyes than an athlete taking multivitamins. It helps stimulate appetite and keeps the goat healthier overall. I was considering getting the paste instead of using the injectable but the injectable is what I have on hand currently.

    The reason I was planning on using alfalfa is that is what one of the local breeders around here uses to finish out his wethers. Last year's wethers looked amazing from his farm. And the animals are only judged on the hoof not by carcass.

    The wether I am looking at right now was castrated at 3 months. He's never really been pushed, only fed a little stock feed and coastal bermuda hay. I'd only be trying to pack weight on him until the beginning of April. From my research it is more messing up the ratio of calcium to phosphorus that causes stones than feeding alfalfa. And I wasn't planning on feeding it straight, but mixed with grass hay so it wouldn't be so hot, and alfalfa is so expensive anyways! But do you think peanut hay might be safer to feed than alfalfa though? I know a lot of people who've had luck with peanut hay.

    Hey Shelly, by tracking do you mean running your goat on a track?
     
  8. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    so, what age should wethers be castrated?, i know later is better for UC, but how about showing?
     
  9. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Ok I do not butcher my goats but I have a questions. I know some people do B12 IM. Are you going to do that or do them Sub Q? I ask that because if you stick a goat that many times in the muscle you are going to damage that meat.
     
  10. Just Kiddin'

    Just Kiddin' New Member

    200
    Nov 18, 2008
    Southern California
    I still don't see the point in sticking an animal every week just to get it to eat. I have NEVER given B12 and my wethers have all been perfectly healthy. In my opinion that guy's goats didn't "finish out" that well because of alfalfa and B12. Alfalfa is not a finisher and does nothing but make their rumen larger. He's finishing with something that, just like anyone else on the show circuit, he isn't going to be honest and tell you about. You will NEVER get anyone who is completely honest about how they feed their show animals. I'm the 4th generation in our family on the show circuit and have yet to meet someone who will honestly tell you how and what to feed.
     
  11. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    Muscle comes from genetics you can't build or feed to get them if they are not already their so no amount of b-12 or top dress will build muscle. The only times I give b-12 is if someone goes of feed or is really slow to eat. Then I give it oral. I do give the b-12 paste at fair because it help with the stress of moving them, all the people coming though and being in the show ring all day. I usually give it on show day and sometimes the day after we move in if I see the animal stressing. After the first couple of days they usually settle in. Is for what hay you feed that a personal choice. We have always fed alfalfa. To be honest my hay is probably 20 to 30% grass. We get are hay from a good friend. Its always small stemmed, leafy and very clean. Shelly
     
  12. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    I only give B12 subq. I'm not trying to build a good show wether from nothing. He has the genetics there, but hasn't been fed properly to be able to compete yet.

    Not to be disrespectful, but I'd rather not continue this thread if people are going to accuse Robby of lying. I've known this man forever and grew up playing softball with his daughter. He has always been straight with me when it comes to goats. I've bought goats from him before and know people who bought wethers from him. He told them the same thing he told me because he wants his wethers to be competitive in the ring. There's no money in it for him if his animals fall apart once they leave the farm. He's a good man and shouldn't be judged like this.

    So thank you all for your input. I will figure out things on my own.
     
  13. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    what works for one breeder's goat may not work for another.
    we shouldn't criticize another breeder we haven't even met.


    there's my :2cents: :2cents: lol.

    does the age of the goat -when castrated- affect the growth of the goat?
     
  14. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    ok first off i WOULD NOT do B12 shots weekly.. maybe bi-monthly at best.. fairs can and will do tests and if they find high B12 its been known that they will DQ the animal.


    i feed showmaster.. works fantastic

    i do feed alfalfa/grass pellets daily.. but in small amounts and grass hay daily in small amounts.


    gotta have the roughage
     
  15. Just Kiddin'

    Just Kiddin' New Member

    200
    Nov 18, 2008
    Southern California
    OK I didn't criticize anyone nor did I call anyone a liar. I'm not going to go through and repeat everything I said. I simply stated you will NEVER get ANYONE to tell you EVERYTHING they are feeding on the show circuit. I thought we were allowed to voice our OPINIONS on this board but apparently I was wrong and will do so no more :)
     
  16. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    Sorry didn't see this earlier. Yes you can build/make a track. I don't have a track. Are pasture is next to the neighbor fence is are there pens. Neighbor kids are in 4h with mine. In the morning and evening before we feed our dog and their dog play and bark at each other and run around the pens down the fence line. This makes the goats and sheep run back and forth. Easiest way to exercise we've very done. Have a friend that does pretty much the same thing, but they have a small round pen that the dogs run around.

    Wow I have always be told that b12 is legal. How much is too much? I thought all b vitamins are water soluble and all extra was peed away. This is the first time I've heard that b12 can be illegal or cause a DQ and would like to learn more.
    Shelly
     
  17. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    i'm getting confused?? whos criticizing what??


    if the wether's not been on full feed, i would get a really high quality feed.. i've used several all with great results

    verdemont
    showmaster
    kings( i don't know if you guys can get that or not.. but its NICE)

    but i'd just start im slowly until you get him to full feed ( which can be from 1 pound to free feed)

    i would say have his grain intake be 2-3% of his body weight

    i recommend grass for roughage with some pellets


    but just as important as feed is exercise.. LOTS of exercise




    and shelly as to the B12.. one of the fairs i show at does health tests at random and if they find high levels of B12 they DQ..

    i do not understand completely why, but i have a feeling its due to the fact that most times an animal is being given b12 regularly is after they had a infection and antibiotics..

    but it's better safe than sorry
     
  18. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    The infection or being sick makes sense that when most will go of feed and need B to help with the appetite. So a ton of B would make me wonder what going on with that animal. Thanks Shelly