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Goats of da UP
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So yesterday I went to the Escanaba State Fair to watch the goat showman shows, the market goat show, and the dairy goat showing.

I saw a LOT of great looking goats. The market goats this year looked especially fine, very well tended and (mostly) well behaved (one massive wether steamrolled his 9 year old handler during showmanship, then refused to move when prompted after that).

When the dairy goats came out, I saw something very disturbing. Almost all the alpines shown belonged to a specific breeder. And four of those alpine girls had large accesses on their jaw and necks. Because the goats were clipped, they were VERY obvious. I think the biggest abscess was the side of a mandarin orange.

Why would abscessed goats even be ALLOWED onto the fair grounds?! I know I will never bring my animals there for the non 4H show (not ADGA or AGS show, either) now that I've seen that. I missed the show last year, so I don't know if the same person was there then, too.

My friend I was with breeds alpines. At first, she was happy to see some pretty nice looking alpines, until we saw the first big neck lump. Then once we saw the others, she was like "I know what breeder to write off completely now!". My friend's herd is tested and abscess free, as is mine. So knowing who to avoid is a bit of a silver lining, I guess.
 

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Where were the abscesses? Could it of been bottle jaw? If that is what it was that I could understand, anything else no way.

I know we have to show a health certificate that is no older then 48 hours from when we go to state fair.
 

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Goats of da UP
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I saw one of the cheek area of one goat (side of face, not under), and all the others were on the necks, about halfway between the head and the chest. The cheek goat also had a small one on her neck, too.
 

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Look for me in the barn...
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I don't think they would have gotten in if they were infectious, unless there's no health check required, which I doubt.

I have a doe with a small, hard, moveable lump on her cheek, right at the "end" of her mouth if you know what I mean. It just popped up one day a few weeks ago and hasn't gone away. It's much like the lump they can get when they bite their cheek or get a thorn stuck in there. I wasn't worried because I've had something similar happen before and there are no lymph nodes in that area. ;) Anyhow, I had the vet out yesterday to do a health certificate for the MD state fair, so he looked at it and poked it with a needle - nothing came out of it. He said it's just "a thing" and nothing to worry about. I asked him to write a note on the health certificate to that effect so they wouldn't send her home when we got to the fair and so if anyone questions it, I have proof it was examined and isn't anything infectious.

So... the cheek lump you saw could have been something similar to what my girl has. Could the neck lumps be from vaccinations?
 

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I have heard of some shows, not checking the goats or the breeder comes in really early and take the goats directly to the pen, This is before any inspector is in place to look over the goats.

This is so unfair and they should be kicked out of any association by doing this, especially bringing in a sick goat and knowing the rules.

I don't go to shows anymore, it is too risky. I want a clean herd and I believe now, the shows are not safe anymore. :(
 

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I think toth is right by her not showing. Not only cl, but there is sooooo many things out there that could slip by and any one of your goats could get, and even get by a vet check. Like chlamydia, its passed threw vaginal fluid, you dont even know your doe has it till right before its time to kid and all your infected does start to abort. Im not saying that I agree with these people bringing in maybe cl goats, but as other showers its also a enter at your own risk. Just because you have morals and know what is right by leaving any sick animal home, not everyone does. I dont show, and honestly probably never will, but my goats stay home no matter what. My bucks go no where, and I dont care how nice of a buck i find to breed any of my does, they stay home as well. It sucks, but the only way to be 100% sure they dont pick up anything!!!!
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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This is very disturbing. Those sound like typical CL locations too. It obvious that no one is either willing to contest that breeder or no one is aware... I would also guess, a vet was not contracted to do vet checks OR the vet has no idea what CL is. In any event it then falls on the exhibitors to inform the fair boards about things like CL and the failure to catch it. There is one word that sends fair board members scrambling and that word is infectious. All fairs receive money for the state. But in order to get that money they all most follow rules and guild lines. One of the holy grail rules is not to allow infectious diseases that could cause harm to mainly people, but also other livestock onto the property.

My other half and I are the open dairy goat Supers for our locale fair (though we are taking a break from it this year). We like to stand side by side with the vet to also check any open class goat that shows up. We dont just police the goats coming in but the vet as well. We make sure that he is changing rubber gloves between each breeder, which most vets dont even think about doing. Every year before we became the supers, we would come home from the fair with something like sore mouth. After we got on the vets, that stopped.

So its up to everyone who attends their fairs or any show to be vigilant and to take direct action to protect their goats.

We attended a ADGA show one year where one of the breeders goats all had CL scars and one was even growing one. We brought it to the attention of the club putting on the show. It was someone in their club with the CL goats and they didnt really have an issue with the breeder. So we loaded up our goats and left. The breeder was very sorry and willing to take her animals home but we let her know we were not upset just not willing to take the risk. And as we were the only ones concerned, we figured it best if we got outta there.
 

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I agree, this is very disturbing. Like I have been saying and saying over a year now... people are not taking this CL disease seriously enough. One of the reasons I got frustrated on this site a year ago was I mentioned putting a CL goat down and got so many people at me for even suggesting that. Well.. we now have a serious issue that is in the show system exposing clean herds. Ugh! Too many are not taking this seriously.
 

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Possibly is not a CL lump but with that lump - the person needs to still stay home - it will either make everyone concerned to become fearful it is CL, or it will make the disease seem like nothing to worry about to those who don't know much about CL.
 

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Only rule in our state is an OPEN CL abscess cannot show. Still needs to have hair on it, and firm to the touch. Another thing to think of is it could have possibly been a heavy worm load.

Even goes as far as to admit many goats have CL, many do not test for CL, and therefore should not be discriminated against for a disease not of their choosing.
 

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Look for me in the barn...
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Here, we have to have the vet come do a health certificate no more than 30 days prior to the show, then there's the vet check when you get to the show. At the local fair, we're not even allowed on the grounds until we get the vet check done at another location.

The problem with allowing non-ruptured CL abscesses is that there could be an internal abscess and it could be spread through coughing.
 

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Wow, that sounds scary! CL or not, for all of those goats to have lumps, something is NOT right.
If my kids were showing their goats and saw that, I'd be making a fuss to the show officials and vet. We do our best to try and keep our goats healthy, and that is the last thing I want is my kids showing with other obviously sick animals.
We can't prevent everything, but that's just very inconsiderate of a breeder to show up with animals like that.
Plus, it just makes them look bad overall, even if it's not CL, who, after seeing that is going to want to buy from them?

I am not sure about our state fair, that's actually a good point. I was told that the health certificate my kids goats got in May would be good for the entire show season, but they didn't state if that was for State Fair or not. Good question to ask for next year.
 

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It is upsetting and devastating.

We don't ask for these disease's and breeders should respect that and not just worry about getting that goat to a show, when they knowingly have abscesses or illness. Even if, they are not ready to pop, they shouldn't be allowed. Yes, if they have them externally, they can very well have them internally. This is appalling. Judges open each mouth of every goat and what does that do? Yeah, it spreads bad things.

That is greed and disrespect to the responsible and caring goat breeder. Who want to show healthy and beautiful goats and not be subjected to the Bull crap. :(

Sorry, it upsets me.
 

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At our first show this year there was goats with abscesses, mites, ringworm, skinny... and this was common! I knew who put the show on so the first thing I did was fuss at them for not health checking. The bad thing is we had a usda person tagging for the state fair at the show! I washed my goats at 2am when I got home and everything that went to the show was bleached. It was so digusting.
 

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A post with pics of the abscessed goats that includes the farm / herdname of these goats might be a disincentive....publicity hurts
 
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