abcesses on udder and fixin' to kid

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by rebecca100, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    My dh bought a nubian doe the other day for $25. Her udder was swollen and at first we thought she had mastitis until we got her home and then we saw that she had abcesses on her udder. She has several of them, all on one side. Well, now she is bagging and I am worried about the kid. Is there anything I can do for the abcessses without ruining her bag or killing the kid? Will the other side be safe to milk from for the kid?
     
  2. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    Can you post a picture?
     

  3. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    No, but they are definately absesses. One of them burst before we could drain them, and i was scared to try to drain them anyway for fear of hitting a vessel. We have her quarentined sp?. I counted 8, I think. Some of them are deep in the udder.
     
  4. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    Wow that's a lot of abcesses...what did the stuff that came out look like?
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  6. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    That's what I was thinking Toth...it sure sounds like it...
     
  7. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yeah, CL also explains why she was so cheap.
     
  8. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    It is nasty thick yellowish pus occasionally with a streak of blood. Her whole right side is filled with them. The other side I never found a single one, which amazed me. Yes I believe it is CL.
     
  9. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Does it look like cheese? Be VERY careful handling her and don't touch those abscesses with your bare hands. CL can be spread to people.
     
  10. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    We have been wearing gloves when handling her and burning the gound periodically where she is housed. I hope when she kids that I will get to them immediately and they will be grow to be abscess free.
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    ..If she... has that many absesses...her immunity is way down....

    have a vet get a sample of the stuff inside of each abscess, that will tell you if it is C L or something else. The abcesses will have to be lanced,
    no matter the outcome.....I recommend a vet check her.... to know exactly what you are dealing with. :(
     
  12. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    As Toth mentioned, having a vet test the "pus" will be the sure fire way of disagnosing Cl.......BUT to have just one side of the udder affected would be odd as the lymph system isn't "split" in the rear of the udder, Cl abcesses would be more likely to occur on the udder closest to the top rear....approximately 75% of abcesses associated with Cl occur on the head and neck of the goat. If just one half of the udder is affected...is it the entire udder area including the teat and foreudder?

    You are doing great by keeping her isolated, those sores will need to be lanced and flushed...and if they are very deep they need to be kept open to allow healing from the inside out. Flush well with gentled iodine and pack any large abcesses with iodine soaked gauze, to prevent scabbing over smear the openings with bag balm...the salve type tuff in the green can has the right consistency fo this.

    Keep feeding her all the high quality hay she'll eat and a worming will help with any parasites that may over come her in the condition she is in, if you know approximately how far along she is it will help with getting her healed before she kids. Even then it would likely be wise to pull those kids and bottlefeed......from research I have done, Cl is not likely spread in the womb or even in the milk....it is contact with the contents of the abcesses that spread it and if she still has open wounds when she delivers the kids will likely be infected in that manner.

    Check her head and neck area for evidence of past abcesses...the neck where it meets the jaw,the base of the neck in front of the shoulder area and the base of the ears on the bottom......if she had any at all in those areas recently you'll be able to see sparse hair growth as well as "smooth" lookin/feeling skin.

    It is a shame that you are dealing with this and an even bigger one that she hasbabies coming on top of it all......just remember though, Cl is only contagious if the contents of an abcess is allowed to come into contact with other goats, either bursting or draining without being taken care of. I hope ou can find a vet willing to test it for yo, so you know for sure exactly what you are dealing with.....it may even just be from having to lay in a dirty truck/trailer for a long period of time that caused the tender tissue to break down.
     
  13. nhsmallfarmer

    nhsmallfarmer New Member

    326
    Apr 14, 2008
    New Hampshire
    I was reading this post trying to figure out CL well I found this just in case anyone else didnt figure it out (maybe it was only me duh)


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    Alternative Medicine for Pets - pygmy goats
    Expert: Sharon Hubbs- Kreft - 5/24/2005

    Question
    Several of our pygmy goats were born alive but died shortly after birth. Some have two lumps in the their neck/throat area about 1" by 1/2" in size and feel like testicles or glands. The lumps don't interfere with their breathing or swallowing. The goats are very weak when born.

    My main question is what could the lumps be? I thought it may be a birth defect from inbreeding, but yesterday's kids were from unrelated parents. And they both had the lumps in the throat area.

    We feed oats and hay in the morning and just hay in the evening. And they have a salt block available.

    If you need more info, please let me know.

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    Answer
    Hello Sandi -

    I think it may be one of three things:

    1. Abscess
    This is a common problem in goats in many areas of the country. Abscesses are caused by the bacteria Coryne-bacterium psudotuberculosis. They appear around the head and on the neck most commonly. The disease is spread from infected animals and from the environment through small punctures in the skin caused by sharp (even pinpoint) objects and vegetation. If abscess do occur on your goat, consult your veterinarian for recommended treatment. If the abscess should break open, clean thoroughly with iodine, flush daily, and keep the infected goat away from others. Keep flies away from the abscess site with a good fly-repellent spray.

    2. Wattle Cyst Abscesses
    Wattle Cyst Abscesses occasionally occur at the base of one or more wattles or at the site where a wattle was surgically removed. Though normally present at birth, wattle cysts may not be noticeable until the goat grows. Wattle cysts contain a clear liquid which can be thick or thin, and the site may abcess when the liquid is aspirated (removed with a needle and syringe). Other than being confused with CL, wattle cysts are harmless.

    3. Caseous Lymphadenitis (CL)
    Caseous Lymphadenitis (CL) is the most common cause of abscesses in goats. Goats with knots under their ears, on their flanks, or about their chests have a huge probability of being infected with the bacterium which causes CL abscesses. Recurring (chronic) lymph node abscesses in goats are caused by the organism corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis. These abscesses can be both external and internal. While the bacteria is highly contagious and spreads through a herd rapidly, the knots (which appear at lymph-gland sites) can be slow to develop, sometimes taking months or years to become visible. No goat breed and no geographic area is exempt from goats being able to ontract this disease. Females contract CL at about the same percentage rate as do males. Wethers display a lower incidence of the disease, perhaps because they are generally terminal animals. The high infection rate in older animals confirms that the organism can be acquired at any time and that exposure increases with age. Caseous Lymphadenitis in goats is a world-wide problem which continues to baffle scientists striving to find either a prevention or a cure . . . neither of which currently exists. Infection occurs through wounds caused by head butting, punctures, and shearing, by ingestion, and even occasionally via inhalation. Internal abscesses can cause major health problems. The disease can affect the lungs, liver, and kidneys; respiration may become rapid and difficult, and infertility can result from scrotal abscesses in males. Udder abscesses in females can seriously deplete milk production. External abscesses are most common under the ears in the head and neck region of the goat's body, while internal abscesses appear most often in the lungs. In decreasing percentages of frequency, external abscesses are found under the ear, on the shoulder, on the flank, and in the udder/scrotum areas.

    All abscesses on goats are not necessarily CL abscesses. The bacterium actinomyces pyogenes also produces a fast-growing nodule, but it contains a smelly, greenish pus. A simple and inexpensive test can be done on blood samples or pus (exudate) to determine the bacterium causing the abscess. Most nodules, as high as 90% or more are CL abscesses.

    Caseous Lymphadenitis is extremely resistant to antibiotic therapy because the thick caseous pus is contained in a tough fibrous capsule which antibiotics cannot penetrate. The abscesses usually develop slowly and contain a cheesy, dryish, white pus about the consistency of toothpaste. Lab testing on blood samples is the only diagnostic tool currently available to determine if a goat without a visible abscess is infected, and tests on goats under six months of age are very unreliable. Active, runny, open abscesses are most accurately testable. Older lesions don't shed enough of the bacterium to be readily detectable. The incidence of "false negatives" is high, particularly in goats displaying no visible signs of abscesses.

    To manage an outbreak of Caseous Lymphadenitis in a goat herd, create a "sick pen" dedicated solely to CL-infected goats; use it for nothing else. Immediately remove an infected animal from the herd and place it in isolation in the "sick pen." NEVER let the abscess burst on its own and contaminate pen or pasture. When the abscess begins to feel soft or the hair starts coming off its center, prepare to open the abscess and remove the exudate. Humans can contract Caseous Lymphadenitis; a skin lesion exposed to the bacterium is an invitation to this highly-contagious organism. If you feel this condition best decribes your goats, please contact your veterinarian right away!
     
  14. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    If the secretions do show as CL - please get ahold of me immediately either through PM or email. I have some information that would be able to help you greatly to keep the kids from possibly contracting CL.

    You can even send in the abcess material yourself through WADDL - It is very cheap, very fast results. I can give you info on how to do that also!

    Do you have other goats at home?
     
  15. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    WOW I agree, I would get her tothe vet and have her checked even if you send in the sample like Allison said.
    Good Luck with her.
     
  16. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    I actually had an appt. to take her to the vet, had her loaded to go, then my dad called (he's 90) and needed to go to the emergency room. He had fallen and hurt his shoulder. So we went, goat and all to the ER. Needless to say we missed the appt. Then, as my luck goes, I came down with pneumonia right after that and have been down for almost a month with it. I took my last pneumonia pill today. Now that I am finally feeling a little better I went to check the goats for the first time in two weeks. I had been bribing the kids and my dh to take care of them. Yes, it is only in one side. That side stays big, and it seems like it is in the teat also, and foreudder, I can feel one deep that there is no way to lance. She also has old lancing scars on her udder. None that I could find on her face and neck. That is where my dh has always seen them also. It shocked him that they would be in her udder. The other side is flat and normal and you can even squeeze milk out of it. We had some burst because i was afraid to lance it now that she's pregnant and started bagging. I believe from the ligs. and palpation that she will kid in or about a month. I could just see lancing it and hitting a vessel, and I am horrified to try. I only have a few goats, about 8 including kids. Nubian boer cross does, Kiko buck. I am afraid that she will kid before I can get her to the vet. What ever she has, she has had it a very long time from the old scars(multiple scars). I feel very sorry for her she is a very pretty goat. My dh says she looks like a llama, but she is his favorite of the bunch. The best way i can think of to describe it is an udder packed full of golf balls that pop open and pour out pus and blood.
     
  17. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

    131
    Jan 17, 2009
    Montana
    If you can't get the goat to the vet, put some of the pus into a small sealed container and send it in to PanAm, WADDL or Texas A&M for testing or have your vet send it in. I've never heard of CL abcesses popping up repeatedly all over one side of the udder, but I suppose it's not impossible. I'd also have the pus tested for staph infection. That's what I suspect it may be and could also affect the kids if they aren't immediately taken away at birth and fed the colostrum and milk of another goat. If it is staph and it isn't treated, she could wind up with staph (gangrene) mastitis. This poor goat definately needs treatment.
     
  18. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    I think it is possible it is one abscess with multiple heads. Anyway, I will post when I find out exactly what it is. I just wish I knew the kids would be okay. I know they are alive now and hope they will be born healthy! It seems like one thing when they are on the face, but in my mind the udder is just too close to them and I was already afraid she might have them internally. I really don't believe she does though since I have not had weight loss problems out of her even though I haven't had her long.
     
  19. FarmGirl18

    FarmGirl18 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Oklahoma
    I've been thinking that it may be staph too...just seems kind of weird to be CL although it's certainly possible.
     
  20. rebecca100

    rebecca100 New Member

    18
    Jan 21, 2009
    I don't believe it is staph, but I could be wrong. It seems if it were that though that it would be accompanied by redness or other signs of infection and would already have turned bad. This seems to be an old complaint in her. The man my dh bought her from had bought her at an auction with it 2 months or so before he only offered her to my dh for that price when he couldn't get rid of her. He actually stopped my dh and asked him if he wanted her. She has two old scars that are about an inch long that appear to be from lancing. They are fully healed and faint but there. We also treated her with antibiotics when we first got her. The only thing I can figure is that they aren't draining properly since there is no resistance or barrier in the udder to stop the tunneling. I will definately have it checked for staph when we go since neither thing is something I want my kids exposed too! I appreciate any thoughts on what else could cause these since I won't be able to take her until next week after I am released by the doctor for this pneumonia!