Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by goats 'n garden rabbits, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I completely disagree.

    The OP is not giving parasite meds, it’s just herbs. There’s no harm in giving them.

    Some brands sold work, some don’t.

    And the whole “slow” thing.... I’m not sure if you, toth Boer Goats, have used herbs, but if you haven’t - please don’t say this. I’ve seen herbs with essential oils in a treatment hourly protocol reduce a load from 8,000 to 600 in a day. Confirmed by a fecal test of course.

    I’ve seen chemical wormers take 4-7 days to get numbers that low.

    Natural deworming works. You must be diligent and do it correctly and use the right stuff and combinations... but gosh, it WORKS!!

    I have seen it save lives when chemicals stop working.

    I’ve only seen it fail a few times, usually when someone is using the wrong formula, dose, frequency, etc.

    That being said I’m not at all against chemical dewormers and anyone who wants to use them is welcome to... but, @wndngrvr don’t tell someone not to use herbal dewormers... they aren’t doing anything irresponsible or dangerous - it’s not your business what harmless supplements someone gives. Using herbs does not create blindness to parasite issues. Fecal tests should still be done, it’s not guaranteed to work and neither are chemicals. Your experience is yours, don’t take an abscess thread and target one thing someone said about using an herbal formula.
    HMNS and Blessed Boer's like this.
  2. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    Since she is due to kid next week, maybe just keep the abscess area clean, make sure she is eating and watch her temp. If it should go up, a vet call might be in order. Stressing her right now won't do any good. I don't know enough about herbal wormers to even try and say anything.

    Stress will bring on a parasite bloom (as in kidding), which you can deal with after the birth, but the abscess is probably a sticker, thorn or infected tooth.

    Sending good thoughts that the kidding is uneventful and you have healthy baby goats!

  3. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Abscess on jawline... thin and watery, stinky, likely an infection of salivary gland or a sticker/splinter from browse or possible foxtail in the hay. I do doubt that the introduction of herbals caused the rupture, it's just coincidental. Don't let the pocket scab otherwise it won't heal properly, go to dollar general or a family dollar store and get a couple tubes of their brand triple antibiotic ointment, get the goat into an area away from the herd, place a Sunday's newspaper worth of layers and use a syringe with either diluted iodine or a saline solution and flush , pat area dry with paper towels and squeeze a tube of triple antibiotic ointment into it. You can send exudate prior to treatment in a red top tube to WADDL to be tested for CL .... as far as messy rear and no evidence, I've not had experience with miscarriage or cloudburst pregnancy, I have had a doe who settled and appeared pregnant to 9 weeks then didn't advance, assumed reabsorbed, if evidence of a birth and no fetus found, if you have LGD you won't find anything, if not then doe likely is discharging what her body couldn't absorb
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  4. Wild Hearts Ranch

    Wild Hearts Ranch www.wildheartsranch.org

    Dec 26, 2011
    Fiasco/Molly's DOES use herbal wormer that they make themselves. I buy it from them; like happybleats it saved my goats when chemical formulas stopped working - and I've verified the reduction through fecal counts. However, it's intended to be used preventatively rather than as a treatment. I can't afford to give it to my entire herd year round so I limit that to the wormy season, but also dose individual animals if they're under the weather, after kidding, etc.

    "It’s just herbs. There’s no harm in giving them." This is VERY dangerous advice. Herbs can absolutely do harm. The fact that the active compounds do have an effect is proof that they could have negative ones as well. Any treatment has potential side effects - Molly's specifically instructs to not use their wormwood formula during pregnancy because it can have negative consequences; only the milder weekly formula. And what if someone doesn't know what they're doing, or misidentifies a plant? Let alone a full blown scammer. Hemlock, foxglove, nightshade...those could be ground up and sold as "herbs", and you wouldn't know the difference until your goat died. There's another seller whose formulas I find questionable; shouldn't kill them, but too risky for my liking nonetheless. Herbals can have very strong effects, so you either need to know what you're doing and/or make sure the person you're buying from does. I also personally try to avoid giving any treatments within the first and last months of pregnancy, because their bodies can be touchy at those points, even to stuff with proven safety records. I will treat if they clearly need it of course, but not just because. They should be wormed immediately AFTER kidding, which is now effective anyway - and with Molly's you can give a strong course of the wormwood formula, to flush out any parasite load that accumulated during pregnancy, as well as stave off an increase while they're compromised from birthing.
    toth boer goats likes this.
  5. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I really meant that there’s no resistances, etc. that can be built up and while I understand what you are saying about herb safety, there’s no harm in giving them correctly. The herbal dewormers are made by a master herbalist. I did not reference all herbs because there are individual herbs that are dangerous - I am talking about the herbal dewormer from Land of Havilah Herbals, which cannot cause harm when used as recommended.

    Additionally, wormwood is not unsafe during pregnancy, read Kat Drovdahl’s blog, she explains that the horror around wormwood in pregnancy is false.

    Y’all - use your own judgement - don’t give your goats a whole bag of herbs in one day. Follow the dosing. Use reputable brands. If you do this, there’s no harm in using herbs as extra protection for parasites.
    Jubillee and MadHouse like this.
  6. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I know some herbs may work on one but not the other.
    It to me isn’t worth the risk if a goat is ill.
    They can go down so quickly.