advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ PICs

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by kids-n-peeps, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    We were set to buy a ND doeling (deposit already sent), a really beautiful little girl, but the most recent pics from the breeder made me wonder if she had an undershot mouth. I've heard it called different things, but what I mean is that her lower jaw sticks out further than her upper jaw (so the opposite of parrot mouth).

    I've emailed the breeder and she is going to look more closely tomorrow, take some facial side pics, and get back to me. I know that parrot mouth can actually cause animals to starve, but what about this type of jaw issue?? Will it cause problems? Does it get worse/better? Is it in any way correctable or is it entirely genetic? And if genetic, I would think she should not be bred?

    Any thoughts would really be appreciated.
     
  2. Zelda

    Zelda New Member

    185
    May 2, 2009
    Rocky Mountains
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity

    Hopefully it's just a picture of an odd moment in time. Maybe she was chewing her cud or stretching her jaw or something. I take tons of animal photos and it's not always easy to catch them standing there and looking their best.

    Otherwise with all the good animals out there, I would not pick an animal with a dental issue as breeding stock.
     

  3. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity

    I too hope that all it is would be a fluke with the pics, yes any jaw deformity can cause problems with eating, goats only have bottom front teeth so there would be an issue with be able to browse....as well as cause problems with those teeth growing too long as she ages, not being able to wear them normally. It could have been a congenital deformity and not neccessarily genetic, you would need to be able to see if any siblings or any other descendents of the sire and dam have the same problem to determine wether it is genetic.
     
  4. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - UPDATED

    Ok - well it wasn't just the picture :(

    I received an email this morning saying that the doeling has a very slight underbite, less than a quarter of an inch (at this point?). She offered to change her to a pet price or she offered an adult doe. I'm sure she would also send back the deposit if I asked.

    So . . .
    #1. I know she should not be bred, but does anyone know if this is something that gets worse in time??

    #2. I think I read on another thread or in a book that sometimes dolomite can have an effect on this type of bite issue???

    I'm still waiting on a close-up shot of the area to get a better idea of things. Hubby says we need to pass, but I guess I'm feeling bad for the doeling and want to make sure she gets a good home.

    Thanks again!
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity

    well it depends. Are you looking just for pets and dont care about showing? or do you have enough space to keep her and keep other goats to pursue your goals? Are you looking for a family milker or two?

    You have to weigh in what you want the goats for and teh space you have. for me just keeping a hay burner around isnt wise due to my small space adn the desire to have a show herd. But your dreams and desires maybe different.

    The breeder seems very honest and I am sure she will find the girl a good pet home if you dotn take her.
     
  6. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ latest info

    I had a Saanen doe with an undershot jaw and I actually never noticed it until the appraiser said something about it. I sold her last week for other reasons but she's 3 and never had a problem with eating or anything. She's had three daughters one of which I have retained and none of them have undershot jaws. I think that its a recessive genetic thing, not minerals, because Val was raised by us since she was a month old and she had free choice minerals, good hay, feed, etc.
     
  7. Zelda

    Zelda New Member

    185
    May 2, 2009
    Rocky Mountains
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ latest info

    If the teeth are offset so they wear abnormally, it can cause sharp hooks and points to develop in the mouth, and if left untreated those can shred the animal's cheeks and tongue. If that does end up being the case, you can expect to have to take her into the vet for dental care (my Sheep and Goat Medicine book talks about this for sheep and goats with dental problems). She also may need the front incisors trimmed. If they get too long, it can cause the animal not to be able to close their teeth properly in the back of their mouth, which makes it harder to eat. That may not happen with her, it just depends on how misaligned she is. But she could end up being expensive in terms of maintenance.

    It also might make it very difficult to sell her and get a decent price out of her... If you are planning to keep her long term, then that aspect doesn't really matter as much. I try to buy quality animals that I can resell for a decent price, so it would matter to me.

    All in all, I don't know that I'd pay for a goat with that issue because there are other super-cute baby goats I'd prefer to buy. I'd probably take one as a rescue though (I'm a sucker, SIGH).
     
  8. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ latest info

    Cowbell has a slight underbite and it has not affected her, even now as a slightly older doe. None of her kids that I have seen (I've seen six of them at least) had it.

    It really depends on what you want, like Stacey said.
     
  9. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ latest info

    Okay - I'm going to post some of these pics. Let me know your thoughts - I would really appreciate it :)
     
  10. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ latest info

    If you are wanting to breed or show I wouldn't get her. If you want her for a pet I would probably get her...but I don't know if she could have problems down the road that could effect her ability to eat and what not so ?? It doesn't look all that bad to me. :shrug: I'm not really sure what you should do. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
     
  11. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    Re: advice about possible jaw deformity - update w/ latest info

    And the second pic . . .
     
  12. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I am seeing a normal looking kid :? Especially with the bottom piccie :greengrin:
     
  13. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    That doesn't look bad at all. Cowbell's sticks out enough that you can see her teeth even when her mouth is closed, sometimes.
     
  14. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    looks normal, especially when mouth is closed. pretty sure.
     
  15. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    Thanks everyone for the replies. I compared the pic to my goats' mouths. Their teeth are closer to the upper gum, almost flush; however, if the positioning stays the same with this doeling I won't worry about the potential problems I heard about! The breeder acknowledges a slight bite issue, so I really appreciate her honesty. The doeling's lower lip is really pink in color so I think it accentuates things . . . maybe.
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I have to agree....looks normal.....with her mouth closed.....
    It isn't that bad....She may or may not pass it on....If you do get her.... and breed her.... I would recommend breeding her to..... a perfect "bite" buck... :wink: Good luck... :wink:
     
  17. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    Thanks for your opinions. They have been helpful to me. We wouldn't be getting her until October, so I was thinking of telling the breeder that we will still take her at pet price so long as the bite does not worsen between now and then & so long as she is able to eat well once weaned from Mom. I am thinking that seems fair for all involved.
     
  18. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Just have to say that she is one ADORABLE girl!! :love: Love the BE black/white combo!
     
  19. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    She does have a bit of an understot jaw. it may or may not worsen as she gets older. She may or may not have problems eating. Personaly i wouldnt get her, especially as a breeding doe. If she has it even a minor one they she can pass it on to her kids. And it could worsen in later generations.
    beth
     
  20. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    she doesnt look bad at all to me. That bottom picture where you can see the bit of pink on her lip... I find there's always one picture which might show something unusual... like, with any animal, that doesnt make them look as good as they could be. And seeing the other 2 pictures look perfectly fine, I think that she's ok.

    Just my opinion though!
    LW