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Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

It sounds like a tapeworm, right now, I would not worm her as too many letting go can cause severe anemia. Febendazole wormers have become ineffective here for tapeworms and at this point my vet had said that the praziquantel wormers have been a better one to use....the fecal likely missed them because there were no eggs in the stool at the point it was done, the wormers given before had rid the system of the eggs and the second dose got the adults. Getting her built back up would be best at this point I think, a few raisins daily with some unsulphered molasses added to her water will help with extra iron intake.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

Thank you! Okay, I will not worm her again in 10 days and will give her some raisins and molasses water. I looked at some more pictures last night and what I saw looked more like threadworm versus tapeworm? Maybe? That would make sense since Ivermec is good for stronglyles (threadworm). So disgusting. Poor baby. Good news is her poopies are still normal and she's eating good!
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

Well, guess I spoke too soon. For the evening feeding she had a small amount of runnny poo on the back of her legs and a tad up under her tail. She didn't come in to eat with the others but stood at the fence, so my daughter went out and carried her in. She ate just a bit really slowly and looks tired. Would only eat 3-4 raisins. Temp 104.5. Lungs clear, stomach making digestion noises as normal. Heart rate 140. Eyelids and gums are still very pale. :hair:
I have her in my utility room because it's muggy, hot, and thunderstorming off and on all day (all week). Gave her nutridrench, baking soda with water, and ibuprofen. Offered her dry oats and she ate about 1/2 cup. Her mom's udder is filling more on one side, so I think she's been nursing off mom quite a bit more the last couple days.
Haven't seen any poo since bringing her in an hour ago and she's whining if I don't sit right there with her. I'm thinking about hanging a line of LR just to cover all the bases. This is not my day.
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

She may have coccidiosis ...has she been medicated for this parasite? I would give her Di-Methoox Concentrated Solution 12.5% Straight out of the bottle as an oral treatment at the following rate:
First day: 1 ml per 5 pounds- given orally.
Days 2-5: 1 ml per 10 pounds- given orally

She may not have coccidiosis as there are other things that will cause diarrhea but if it is it can take a kid down very fast and it is better to be prudent and make sure. All the best !!
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

I agree with the Di Methox treatment, the worms that you saw were threadworms and after looking at pics myself with your description I'd hazzard a guess that the sudden release of these is what may have caused the anemia. I am praying that she recovers and that she is better soon.
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

Thank you, Mully. Her temp is down with the Ibuprofen (101.5) and she seems a little more energetic. The vet said she was negative for cocci so I don't know what to think. She was doing much better until I decided to try worming her again because her eyelids and gums remained very pale. :(
Still no diarrhea (or any poops) in the last 3 hours. Our goat feed is medicated with Decoquinate as a cocci preventative but she has not been medicated for cocci otherwise. If the medication wont hurt to try anyway, I'm all for that. She is also grinding her teeth but only when offered food or when I drenched her earlier. :shrug:
The oatmeal seems to have worked very well again to stop the diarrhea in it's tracks but with the fever earlier there is more going on than just feed or grass. :GAAH:
I will get some DiMethox in the morning if our TSC carries it, otherwise I will be calling the vet on a Sunday to pick some up.
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (Update Worms)

Just got off the phone with the on-call vet. In that office we have the horse/dog vet, the cattle vet, and the pig/sheep/goat vet. The cattle vet was on call but he does have his own goats, so that's helpful (we usually see the pig/sheep/goat vet). He said we've already ruled out the cocci but he wants me to give her 2cc of Pen G tonight and call again tomorrow after church lets out if she isn't better so we can start a stronger antibiotic.
He said you have all given great advice with what's been done so far and he would have done the same for his own goats. :hi5: :hug:
I am going to head down and get a bag of LR, so wish me luck with hitting those itty bitty veins. They seem a little flat so I'm sure dehydration is also playing a role in all of this.
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (At the Vet)

Our girl took a turn for the worse tonight. By the time I got back with IV supplies she had diarrhea (foul smelling) just pouring out and couldn't stand up. It had lots of worms the same white worms in it. I tried three times to get an IV (and pride myself in being a good stick) but her veins were completely constricted and flat. Her eyelids were taking on a bluish tint so I gave her 200 cc of Lactated Ringers Sub Q and headed to the vet. He again checked a fecal and no worm eggs, no cocci. He even let me look under the slide. I had bagged up a few of the worms and left them in a baggie in my rush to get down there. However, she blew several of them out onto his table and he said it looks like threadworm, and she is full of them. Her temp was back up to 104. He started an IV in her neck (EJ) and gave her shots of 3 different antibiotics, B-12, Thiamine, and Iron. Gave her probios and then wormed her again with Panacur. He said she was in hypovolemic shock and has some unknown secondary infection. So, our baby is spending the night at the vet's on an IV drip. They will let us know how she's doing tomorrow afternoon, and he gave her 50/50. I know losing goats is something that comes with raising them, but I'm too new to them to lose one so early into it. :( Hoping Chipper pulls through this. :sigh:
 

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Re: Another diarrhea question (At the Vet)

When massive amounts of parasites ie. worms, bacteria there is a toxic reaction to the body as there is a toxin overload that sometimes makes them sicker. It is good you have a vet that has goats because IMO he is doing the right thing and i do not think the goat would survive without the iv and the extreme care. God Bless For me prayer always works so i will pray.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Our baby passed away this morning at the vet. :tears: He did a necropsy on her at no expense to us because he was curious as to the cause of death for future reference. It took about an hour for him to call back and say the caues of death was a complete blocked large intestine, blocked with tapeworms. He said some were over a foot long and still alive, but the ones she was passing were dead.
He said this is very unusual and he has never seen a goat so infested with tapeworm. It made me feel better in that he said the tapworm would not have been affected by the ivermectin I gave her and her diarrhea, solid stools, normal stools, diarrhea were part of the blockage loosening up, then balling back up. He said there was nothing that could have saved her with the degree to which she had worms.
I'm okay because death is a part of life, but my kids are crying and the part that gets me is the mama goat out there standing at the fence still crying for her baby. The last she saw her, I was carrying her off into my house. She's still waiting for me to bring her back. :sigh:
Thank you all for your help. The vet was impressed with all the advice we received here. :hug:
**Edited to say that the vet said Valvasen (sp?) is the only thing that will kill tapeworm. It's not widely used with breeders due to the risk of aborting the kids. We're picking some up for the mama doe tomorrow at the vet.
 

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I'm so sorry. *hugs to you and your kids and momma goat*
Valbazen is the name of the wormer he meant? Does that sound right to you? It does carry the risk of abortion.
Again I am so sorry. You did everything you could.
 

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I am so sorry you lost her :hug: Mama will be ok in a few days, just give her some extra TLC , being with her will help you and your kids as well :hug:

It is wonderful that you have a vet available that knows goats and has the compassion of knowing that caring for an animal means more than just feeding it. There is another wormer that will kill tapeworms and is safer for pregnant does, it is Praziquantel and comes in different strengths as a paste wormer for horses. Equimax is one brand with 1.87% ivermectin and 14.03% praziquantel, Zimecterin Gold is another brand with 1.55% ivermectin and 7.75% praziquantel.

Praziquantel is approved for use in pregnant mares so I would assume it's use is safe in pregnant does.
Has your vet given you a course of action for the rest of your herd?
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Thank you, Liz. Didn't see this before I posted about the Safeguard. I will be using the Equimax. Valbazen makes me nervous with abortions and birth defects with our does and a "loaded buck" around, even if they are seperated. Accidents happen. Mama goat is acting very upset with me, snorting and stomping her feet when I try to near her. I was the one who took baby away from her last night, so I'm the villain who kidnapped her. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it.
The kids have already recovered because the breeder said he will replace our doeling tomorrow. We didn't expect that and I don't fault him at all. She looked very healthy when we got her Friday. Dh just gave him a heads up so he could check his heard of 200+. Our mama and baby were at the same farm as his multi-grand champion bucks. Not good.
THIS TIME I'm checking eyelids and worming with an arsenal anyway so I know.
And yeah, all three of our vets are awesome. Poor guy came out to his office and stayed until 3 am with our baby when he had to teach Sunday school this morning. Very good people, and less than 15 minutes away. :)
 

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I am so very sorry P7, I was hoping she would pull through this. At least you know there was nothing else you could have done for her. I am glad your kids are doing better, and hopefully getting another doeling will get them past this loss. Kids are tough, very tough. My kids amaze me so much all the time.
I hope Mama doe doesn't have an infestation like that, and gets over the loss of her baby soon. She's probably be just the same whether she saw her baby take her last breath or not.
When I worked with horses, late in the foaling there was something making the foals sick - and 3 foals who were the same age died whent hey were just a couple of days old. They were all on iv's struggling to live, and the next morning I come to work and they were gone.
They sent the mares to my barn an hour or two later, and turned them out in a pasture together with other mares, and it was heartbreaking, they were running the fenceline, searching for their babies, and just totally upset.
It took 3-4 days, and you'd never have guessed they had lost a foal only days later. So I hope your doe recovers soon. I am always terrified of something like this happening, I know it happens, but doesn't mean it is ever easy.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Thank you, Hoosier. When our mare lost her foal, I left the baby in the stable with her until she walked away from the baby to give her closure. I thought about bringing our doeling home for the mama, but the vet wanted to open her up to see what went wrong.
I am kicking myself for not worming her with something to kill tapeworm instead of the ivermec, but can't do it now. I can just make sure I protect the rest of the herd. And our vet didn't give us a strategy for dealing with the rest of the herd, except for worming her mother for tapeworms as well.
He did say he has NEVER seen a goat with a tapeworm blockage like that, and has rarely seen it in dogs, so I don't think it's that common if that makes anybody feel better.
The little white worms we saw coming out, according to the vet after the necropsy, were chunks off the bigger worms and not full worms in themselves. So, the ivermec or cydectin was doing something to them even if it wasn't supposed to. Didn't kill them, just tore them up a little. Hope this helps somebody else.
 

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P7, a good treatment to keep on hand for tapeworm treatment in goats is the dog tapewormer tablets "Droncit" we use these whenever we have a rescue goat come in with severe (or minor) tapeworm issues, the doseage is 1 tablet per 10 kg of body weight. If you suspect a heavy infestation in the goat it is important to use a goat wormer first or else you may risk a chance of a bleedout, not that the Droncit tablet will harm the goat but because it is so thorough that the worms don't stand a chance against it and it gets every part of the worm where as with some of the goat wormers they will not kill off the head of the tapeworm but tear the body off due to various reasons. I'm sorry for your loss, it's never easy for us because we rightfully become so attached to our herd members so easily. Thinking and praying for you during this time.
 

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Wow.. I'm really sorry to hear about the doeling. :( I've only ever *seen* intestinal worms a time or two, but never have I heard of any such thing as you described. Doesn't sound like there's much anyone could have done to save her.

Good on you for trying so hard, though! You definitely deserve a big pat on the back for caring enough to try so hard to save her. Most folks around here just let them die if a few bucks worth of treatment doesn't solve the problem.. I'm considered a bit of a weirdo for keeping things like IV sets and lactated ringers in my medicine cabinet.

Again...really, really sorry. :(
 
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