Another Mineral/Copper Question

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by lovinglife, May 18, 2018.

  1. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    I have a big Alpine doe who always looks deficient to me. I am worried I will OD her but she still has reddish hair on her legs that used to be and should be black, tail hair is thin too. I use the calf size and give it all to her, twice so far this year. I use a custom made mineral mix just for our area and also formulated for dairy goats, it is out 24/7 plus on the weekends I get a small container and mix minerals with kelp and walk around offering it, they always eat the entire container, I put some every other day or so in one of their feeders and they clean that up in several days so I know they are eating it. I fill their mineral feeder up every weekend as well. We have well water so do have minerals in it but I have seen worse for sure. I am thinking i need something else to add for her, a paste or something, do you think extra selenium and zinc would help? She is healthy otherwise though, a great milker with a very healthy appetite. I do believe she has a selenium deficiency and has had for some time, every year she has triplets and one always has contracted tendons in front legs. I gave all my does a couple doses of replamin this year after she kidded with another crooked legged kid and everyone else was fine. Also she always seems to have a curve in her back, like hunched, not bad but none of my other goats look like this, I welcome ALL suggestions for her, she is a wonderful goat and deserves the best! as they all do!
     
  2. Einhorn

    Einhorn Active Member

    282
    Jan 2, 2014
    Can you post a profile picture of her showing her back and legs?
     

  3. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    I’d start her on kelp also. You could do the replamin more regularly.
     
  4. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    I will get one this weekend, I don't have any new ones with me right now.
     
  5. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    So she has had 25 grams of copper bolus in 5 months? It seems like that should have fixed it huh?!

    I suppose I would try the Replamin Plus paste orally daily for 5 days then weekly for a couple months and see if that does the trick?
     
  6. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    She is my biggest doe, I call her my little pony and she follows me around the place munching on various grasses, trees, weeds. I thought it was a lot of copper which is why I wonder if it is something else I am missing. She didn't get all the little rods, there were some still left in the bowl but she got most of them. Maybe my eyes don't work so good anymore and she left more than I thought, think I will put the next one in a peanut or an apple. She has brown where is should be black though which I have seen clear up with lots of copper. I looked at a picture from last fall and her brown spot on her leg was black so I know it should be black and I am not just losing my mind.
     
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  7. aJadeMagnolia

    aJadeMagnolia Member

    76
    May 17, 2018
    One thing about the COWP, I have been told that it helps to not feed them for 3 hours afterwards, so that it won't be lost with the digestive process and be excreted. Some animals are not as able to absorb it as others, and by withholding the hay/grazing/feed it can allow time for the little rods to "lodge" onto the stomach lining in order for the slow release to begin and continue over time.

    There is also an herbal copper supplement I can highly recommend called Kop-Sel that works faster, and you could try that in addition to the COWP since that is going to take a while to work. She does really seem to be needing copper badly.

    I don't think you need to worry about OD right now, it really sounds like she wasn't able to absorb much of what you gave her and I've had that happen to a couple of my goats before too.

    I posted more on Kop-Sel and copper in general here: https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/copper-deficiency.197190/page-2#post-2125355

    And I second the recommendation of kelp. But I've used that since the beginning and had copper issues over the years so that is to help her with other nutrient support, it's not going to solve her copper deficiency.
     
  8. aJadeMagnolia

    aJadeMagnolia Member

    76
    May 17, 2018
    Not sure if you're interested but about the only other thing I can think of that you might want to know. They say there's an herb that can help prevent copper toxicity if you are concerned about copper OD later on. Right now though, your doe seems to have excreted a lot of the copper she's received over the past several months, or else something is impeding its uptake. Check out the link I provided in my previous post for more detail.

    "Brigham Tea (provides more access to copper and safely removes built up copper that the body couldn’t use that can cause toxicity)"
    https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/product/diy-vitalerbs-kit/
    https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/product/brigham-tea/
     
  9. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I don’t know if it would help with the red on the legs but if your seeing signs of selenium deficiency I would try giving selenium.
    I had a doe that was always just kinda blah totally healthy just one that I never looked at and thought wow that is just a nice looking goat, just blah lol the best I can explain it lol
    When I first got a bottle of bose I was super cautious about it since I wasn’t using it under a vet and I’m a chicken lol so under dosed everyone. Even at less then the 1cc per 40# I saw a HUGE difference in this doe. She chunked up, slicked out and just looked great.
    To make a long story short lol last year I started to put out loose selenium salt. I saw a great deal of improvement in a lot of my Goats doing that. I think it’s Toth who mixes the salt in with her loose minerals. I thought about doing that since it seemed to work great for her but went ahead and just had a separate tub for the salt. I wanted them to pick and choose when they wanted/needed it and ignore it when they didn’t. Let me tell you though they really wanted it the first few weeks I started to put it out for them!
    You could go the bose and or selenium paste also or even the replamin gel especially if you might be dealing with more then just one mineral issue, but I really still like the idea of having the selenium out for them to choose
    It when they want.
    Sorry I didn’t mean for it to end up being a book
     
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  10. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Where do you buy selenium salt?
     
  11. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Just from the feed store. I can’t tell you the name at the moment since I’m having a mouse issue and it’s in a barrel with the bag tossed but I just go in and ask for a bag of loose selenium salt. It’s the same thing as the block just loose. The loose is just easier for me instead of the block because I can just put out a scoop and if kids play in it I can dump it where the block i have to try and clean it up the best I can, but one could go with the block too if it’s easier
     
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  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I use American stockman SE90 and sweetlix meat maker, but I am in a very selenium deficient area.
    I don't mix any table type salt in it.
    What I do mix is, the American stockman SE90 and sweetlix meat maker together. ;)
     
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  13. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    I do have a selenium block out, and a cobalt block and of course loose minerals. The selenium block was put out a month or so ago, I always keep a cobalt block out, it gets used a lot. You guys are putting out a lot of really good information here. I spent an hour going to the links, good information! I do give her kelp just not all the time, darn stuff is expensive. I need to save up and get the big bag from Azure.
     
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  14. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    North American Kelp Company from Maine tends to have Kelp less expensive than all the other sources I have checked. They will ship single 50lb bags.
     
  15. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Yes! That’s what the bag is called but it is selenium salt, that’s the name on the bag, no it’s not table salt lol
     
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  16. Redbarngoatfarm

    Redbarngoatfarm Active Member

    788
    Jul 7, 2015
    Southern Ontario
    I believe it’s the WELL WATER! I had similar experiences, water was very hard, then I got a barrel and later a tank- HUGE difference, had new herd in 6 months. The copper can’t get absorbed properly because of the minerals in the water- please trust me - get a rain barrel!!!!
     
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  17. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    I have a rain barrel that catches the rain from the feeder roof which is pretty good size but we average 7 inches a year..... not enough. We have irrigation water I could use, but I wonder if that would be any better. Thoughts? It comes from a snow fed mountain lake.
     
  18. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    I am checking with North American Kelp, but shipping all the way to Idaho will cost a bunch.
     
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  19. aJadeMagnolia

    aJadeMagnolia Member

    76
    May 17, 2018
    Many people only have well water and some say that adding a splash of apple cider vinegar (ACV) to the water troughs helps reduce the effect the minerals have on copper absorption.

    Is the water they are drinking being treated by a water softener?
     
  20. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    no just straight well water. I have started adding ACV to see if it helps.