Any suggestions on what I should do?

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by HoosierShadow, May 31, 2010.

  1. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Hey everyone, so today has been an off day in our lil'herd.

    I am having a 'bully' issue in the herd, and I wouldn't be so concerned BUT, the one who is being bullied is pregnant and due within the next 2-4 weeks.
    I noticed yesterday that she was skittish around our two new does, and I saw a scrape on the upper part of her hind left leg. I left it alone because it was scabbing.
    Well, I've been stuck inside most of the day because my 3yo is sick. I've watched them through the window and everyone seems fine.

    I go out to feed, and when I go to check everyone over, and check her injury, there is a new scrape above it! It's a little bigger than the size of a quater, and I'm sure it's from someone headbutting her.
    One of the new does only has half of a horn - they tried to debud her, but the horns kept trying to grow back - so one is half, and the other is tiny and twisted. however, the younger doe I believe is the culprit - and she has both her horns in tact.

    She seems really depressed this evening, and now she won't go in the mini barn to sleep with the others because they are picking on her.

    Any ideas what I can do? Should I just leave them alone and keep an eye on them?
    If she still seems very unhappy tomorrow, should I consider blocking off my backyard and seperating her and her buddy from the others for a while?
    We don't have a 2nd pen built yet, but it's in the works to happen soon.

    She used to be very pushy, and bossy, so today has just been totally off with her, and she's spending more time alone, when she is usually ALWAYS with her buddy. She's sleeping next to the fence, and everyone else is inside.
    I feel so bad for her :(
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    thats a hard call because goats sometimes just need to battle it out till they determine their new herd order. But on the other hand you want her to be safe especially since pregnant.

    if you can separate her if this continues that probably would be best. How long have you had the new ones for?

  3. RPC

    RPC Boer Goat Breeder

    I agree with Stacy if she was not prego I would just leave them but with her being prego and late in her term I would probably seperate if it is still going on tomorrow.
  4. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks ladies. Yeah, if she wasn't pregnant I wouldn't worry at all. The other does we just got on Friday evening so they haven't been here all that long. They all seemed to be getting along great, then WHAM, she was becoming the bottom of the pecking order. Before Friday she was 'second in command.'

    I'll keep an eye on her tomorrow, and hopefully things won't get any worse. She was standing outside this evening which is unlike her since she's usually with her buddy. She seems scared to go near the barn because of the bigger doe. I keep peeking out at them, and finally her buddy came out to sleep with her. The good thing about her buddy is, if she is 'right' there, she will go after the other does, as she still seems to be maintaining 'queen of the herd' status.

    I just got really worried when two days have passed and two seperate injuries, but in the same area.

    She's not a very big doe, probably 2nd to smallest. Her buddy is about the same size, but much more 'macho woman' LOL
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Glad macho women is her freind ...that really does help alot..... :wink:
    Goats can be so mean to new comers and sometimes to there own...I had one doe that 5 does... where beating on ....and she was raised up with them....sometimes I swear ....the does say something negitive about the others does..... that wasn't excepted.... :veryangry: .... I had to take her out of the field and let her duke it out ....1 on 1 with each doe involved... but they finally quite after doing so.. :doh: :help:
  6. mrs. lam

    mrs. lam New Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    Sheep do it too. When Mischief our goat had her twins, Moose our sheep wanted to look. Mischief hit him and ticked him off. We put a door across her shed to keep them apart for a couple of days then tried again. Once more they started. Moose kept ramming her intill she was on the ground. She stood up with her head down and let Moose go in the shed and smell the kidds. That was all he wanted.

    Mischief won't mess with Moose anymore however, poor BaaBaa is fair game. My hubby says he must have commented on her not losing the baby weight. :laugh: Moose is now the Ref. When they start head butting he comes and stands between them. He does it every time. I had never seen that before. Mischief and BaaBaa will put thier heads against Moose but they don't push. :shrug: Nothing like a meeting of the minds I guess...

  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Hehe ...we will never know ...what goes on... in the goats heads....will we... what are they thinking.... :ponder: :chin:
  8. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks everyone. And I agree, we will never know what goes on in their minds, but it sure would be nice!
    Things seem better so far today that I can tell. She was off grazing with 'Trouble' <the youngest doe we just bought>, and the buckling this morning when I went out to check the mail. She started talking to me and ran up to the fence to greet me.
    So I am wondering if it's the larger doe that is the only one picking on her. At least her buddy will stick up for her when they are together. None of the others mess with her, and I love that she is the queen....LOL
  9. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Well, we went to my daughter's 5th grade graduation, and didn't get home until right after 9pm, so it was getting dark. We fed the goats, and I checked on the doe, and she was really wet. I am thinking it's dew though, as she was acting fine, so she must have been resting in the grass - no one else was wet.

    She looked like she had a little moisture on her rearend, didn't look like a thick discharge, but from what i could see, it might be a little discharge.

    The large doe was chasing her off, I yelled at her and smacked her rump <like it did any good....stubborn girl!>. Of course I"d never be mean to them, I was just hoping to gain her attention.
    If this keeps up, then I want to go ahead and come up with something so we can seperate them - in the evening so she can rest with her buddy through the night. Even if that means they have to stay inside at night - they will be staying in at night when they kid anyway, so maybe time to start getting them used to it...
  10. Galavanting Goat

    Galavanting Goat New Member

    Apr 27, 2010
    In all honest, if it were me, I wouldn't be taking any chances, if she was a tough girl and able to hold her own then maybe I would keep them together but since that's not the case I would seperate them for hers and the bubs sake. Let them fight it out after bub/s have been born and she's had time to restore in her body, it will only take one hard knock to her belly (that you may not witness) and she could slip her bub/s.

    I would put her and her buddy together in a seperate area 24/7 if at all possible, even giving them all a wide open space together may still be asking for trouble as some does will go out of their way to "come after" the opposition or belt them when in a tight space, EG coming through a gate/barn door etc.

    Hopefully it will just be dew she has on her but keep an eye on her anyhow. Remember she needs to be able to feel safe, especially in her last weeks, not stressed about where the next blow will come from.

    Hang in there, your insticts will tell you whats best. Oh and remember, being the herd queen, she may feel a bit humiliated that her status is regularly being challenged which may explain her quietness at times. Hope it all works out for you and her soon.
  11. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks GG! I haven't seen any more rough treatment from the larger doe, this doe just runs away when the other one comes around.
    My husband is building a divider wall in the barn so we can seperate them at night - this doe and her buddy will be put in one side when they kid.
    I want to put these two does in my backyard for now. We've just got to build something to block off the entrance to the backyard so they can't get out. I'm going to have my husband work on that when he gets up <he works nights>.
    I definitely don't want to take any chances, and her lose the kids, or be unhappy. She was 2nd in command, and now she isn't, so I agree, she's probably down in the dumps about that.
    I found out yesterday she has hoof rot. She's been walking sore, and I kept checking and checking, and finally found a soft spot, and opened the area up. We've had a LOT of rain <over 10 inches in May>. We typically don't see that much rain in one month. So I'm sure she doesn't feel like contesting with the other doe anyway.
    Good thing is the other doe only has half of a horn. They tried to dehorn her when she was little, but the horns just kept trying to grow anyway. So she has a half horn, and the horn on the other side is tiny and curled in a bit <deformed>. She's a pretty girl though, and the largest doe - 2nd oldest.
  12. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Re: Any suggestions on what I should do? -New doe is a BULLY

    I just thought I'd post that I am keeping my preggo girls in at night away from the bigger doe. They may not be all that happy with me tonight, but they will adjust. They have plenty of space, bedding, hay, and water. I don't want them to be seperated because of a bully.

    My husband wanted the new doe, but now he doesn't like her at all. She's not awful, but he doesn't like how she tries to push everyone around. Her little sister is a little pushy, but she's a youngster bursting with energy <we didn't name her Trouble for nothing LOL>.

    Would you keep a doe like this? Our other does are pushy, but this girl really goes after them - except for the 'queen,' the doe is scared of her.
    I am wondering tonight if this doe has injured our buckling's leg, or if it's the tiny little bit of hoof rot that is really making him sore. He was perfectly fine yesterday... This morning he was limping.

    My husband found out about a goat swap/sale going on at Tractor Supply on Saturday morning, and now he wants to take the big doe there and sell her, possibly get a different doe <we want 5 does total>. But not sure that is such a great idea. I definitely don't want to have one that insists on bashing everyone around, so how do you all deal with these cases? Give her more time?

    We're going to work on building a small pen around the kidding stall, hopefully we can start on it this weekend.

    I also forgot to mention that the new doe sleeps outside the barn door, and the doe she picks on is affraid to go inside. That was my big reason for keeping my preggo girls inside. I felt so bad for her sleeping outside by herself. Her buddy is the 'queen' so she goes wherever she wants.. but this little girl is just too scared of the big doe to follow her buddy.
  13. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Personally, I would not keep her. At least if what she's doing is mean versus just trying to find her rank in the herd. We bought a nubian when we bought our first boer doe and then two doelings not long after. The nubian was constantly going after the babies, butting them against walls for no reason, slamming them up against the fence, and trying to take on the boer doe who was much bigger. We thought she was prego so I thought it was her hormones. She even looked at my young daughter kinda sideways, how they turn their head kind of cocked like they are about to charge, and lowered her horns. She never did (as evidenced by the fact that she's still living) but when I found out she wasn't pregnant I was happy to trade her for another doeling. It's been quiet every since. Our Queen gets a bit pushy at mealtime and hogs her side of the shelter, but she doesn't go after the others for no reason. I think that's the difference. One is being an animal and the other was just a witch. :laugh:
  14. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thank P7, she doesn't seem totally mean, but she does act like she wants to be 'queen.' However, all the goats hail to 'Queen' Snow White...LOL I love that Snow White is queen, she's a good girl, and isn't mean at all. If they are doing something she doesn't like, she just lowers her horns, and they back off or move away.
    But with this doe, like tonight, they were all coming around the barn as it was close to feeding time. And this doe was chasing our other doe off in a pretty aggressive way.
    I let the other doe in the stall with me, and she didn't want to go back out at all! In fact, she stood there for a while and then laid down with an expression as if she were thanking god to be away from the other doe.

    It's such a hard decision. We are just putting our herd together, and she is friendly, never acted out towards the kids at all. Sometimes she will come up to you, or sometimes she'll run away from you. She's still a bit skittish, and she's not used to the way we do things, and I think that makes her nervous.
    I really do think she is making it clear she wants to be 2nd in command if not 1st. But I sure don't want anyone getting hurt because of it.
    I know when we brought Molly home <our third doe>, they other two picked on her something awful, BUT, they never left a mark on her.
    Sweetheart has the two healing scratches on her back leg... And now buckling is lame and I don't think it's because of hoof rot - BUT - it could be because Molly is possibly coming in heat, and he's been trying to mount her...

    I'll observe more tomorrow than I was able to do today <I've been fighting a stomach bug the past 48 hours - finally feeling better!>, and we'll go from there.
    My husband said if she keeps going after Sweetheart and buckling the way he saw her do today, he's selling her - or taking her to a goat swap on Saturday to sell or trade for another boer. We want to have 5 does, but definitely can't have two queens....
  15. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    If her attitude is not something you want to deal with, I'd swap her. I have a real witch here but she's a pet first and I'd never part with her even though she's the reason I lost my only registerable kids this spring, I know what she's capable of so my plans for separation of preggy girls this winter will keep her from injuring them and causing still births. She's here to stay but my management will work around her.
  16. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks Liz! Our problem is we don't have a lot of acreage, so we needed to put together a herd that gets along well with each other.
    This doe is still new, and I know it takes time to get settled. She doesn't appear to be aggressive, just wants to pick on the one doe.

    I let the preggo girls out of the stall this morning and they all were grazing really well together. Then the two girls went back over to lay in front of the barn in the shade. Next I look out, and the big brown doe has gone over and run the other doe off so she could lay in her spot. The other doe looked so unhappy standing off to the side, pawing a bit. So I went out and let her back into the stall so she can rest without worry. She is fine inside - I just put fresh water in the stall, she has hay, and it's very airy so she can stay cool. Her buddy is laying right outside so they can see each other.

    I was thinking if we get our kidding pen done soon, like tomorrow, then we can seperate them, and then gradually put them back together after they've kidded and the kids are a week old. Observe and if the doe is still a problem, them we'll sell her. I also thought about having my husband sand her horn down so it's more flat? If she doesn't have any kind of an edge on it, I don't see her doing a lot of damage. It's grown in oddly because they tried to dehorn her and it just persisted to grow - it's really wide, not long, but comes to a point. The point isn't sharp, but if we flattened it more I am sure that could help...

    It's so hard, because we bought these two from a very nice herd, and from very nice people. They were well taken care of, given attention, and they are great around our kids. The little doe isn't a big problem when it comes to getting along with others. She's named 'Trouble' because she's like an ADHD kid <LOL>, and she is always getting into trouble! But she's sooo sweet :)