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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everybody. My friend does not have access to this forum, but is looking for some advice far last my area of expertise.

Her goat began presenting with symptoms similar to listeriosis or polio. Drooling, eyes rolling into head, not standing right.

Goat has a terrible immune system, born a preemie and is a nigi but weighs 35 pounds and is over a year old. Looks malnourished slightly too. Obviously deficient in minerals. Only recently introduced to manna pro minerals. But was doing OK prior to my friend coming home to find her like this.

No fever. Goat is drinking.

She got her started on listeriosis and polio treatment ASAP. Slight improvement over a day or two but won't eat, well, can't eat. She tried to eat hay but cannot. Goat will only eat milk replacer :( I know, don't get me started. This was not per my recommendation. Thought of a mash of alfalfa pellets and her grain but she can't swallow it and it just pours back into the bowl from her mouth.

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Anyone have any advice?

Also at a loss for the cause of this.
 

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It looks quite wet and perhaps hay is fed from the ground. Listeriosis is the stronger suspect in this case and has a much longer treatment response time than polio. She needs to be prepared to give injections for WEEKS!

Does she have the Dexamethasone or Banamine to reduce brain swelling? It's a critical component. Be sure she is giving the Penicillin and Thiamine injections every 6 hours.
 

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That looks really, really bad. Have your friend notice when/if she gets chilled, because she can't regulate her temp well.

There is a high calorie liquid, I think it is called Dyne??? that might help her. And of course Probios and Replamin.

This is suggested besides the injections of course, not instead of.

Finally, I'd ready myself to console your friend. This may not turn out well...

I'm so sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That looks really, really bad. Have your friend notice when/if she gets chilled, because she can't regulate her temp well.

There is a high calorie liquid, I think it is called Dyne??? that might help her. And of course Probios and Replamin.

This is suggested besides the injections of course, not instead of.

Finally, I'd ready myself to console your friend. This may not turn out well...

I'm so sorry.
I am not assuming this is going to turn out well, sadly.
 

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I am treating a 6 month old billy right now! I tube him every morning and every evenin with bounce back electrolytes and baby food mixed with water! HE is progressing daily but he still don't want to eat! Im giving him thiamine, Dex, and penicillin everyday and will continue until he is well!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Unfortunately things aren’t going well. And I do believe a friendship has been lost.

My “friend” has now repeatedly refused to get dark beer, electrolytes, Gatorade, yogurt, Replamin, anything that she doesn’t already have (which is next to nothing). She doesn’t have a lot of money, which I empathize with. However you can get Guinness beer for $2, and the rest mostly for under $5 except for a few more expensive items.

She has refused to get alfalfa pellets, only giving a grain slurry.

She has no vet, not willing to pay for one, so she cannot get any meds such as banamine or thiamine. Only b complex and penicillin.

The goat is already weakened from severe mineral deficiencies. Owner refused copper bolusing, no money for loose minerals etc.

Finally just started her on loose minerals, manna pro. Copper boluses just purchased after much begging from seeing fishtails, full balding, etc. etc.

It’s tough, I really do have sympathy, but there comes a point when going to a convenience store with $5 can have you walk away with something that can save the life of your goat, and support them through a period of not being able to eat. But no, unfortunately spending $5 was too much to ask.

I so wish I lived closer to her, I would bring over pounds of alfalfa pellets and electrolytes and even offer to pay for the vet service. But living 10 hours away (and now losing all trust in this person) has made this not possible.

I am trying my best to advise her to use what she has, homemade electrolytes, just a grain slurry, penicillin and b complex, but I just want to get my hands on this goat so badly and shove some Replamin in her and a good alfalfa mash!!!!

But I can’t. And I can’t change someone’s way of thinking.


Just wanted to update y’all, things are not looking good for the poor goat.
 

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If you can't afford a vet, then you can't afford a pet.

It's simplistic, all proverbs, ESPECIALLY rhyming proverbs, are. But there is deep truth there nonetheless.

I'm sorry for the goat, I truly am. It doesn't deserve this.
On the plus side, it does not sound like your friend will need consoling. You have to care in order to feel loss.
 

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What an awful thing to be happening to this poor goat. I understand the money issue, I've been there before. But if they can't afford those cheap things for some reason now, take out a loan or borrow some cash from somebody. Local goat groups also often get together and help. The fact that she has refused everything, means she does not care for this poor animal. She should not have any goats period. Try to stay calm. You don't want her to get so mad at you she refuses to let you see/update you on the poor girl. Is there any way you can take her, or know some who can, who could give her what she needs? And at least give her a shot at getting better. If not this goat will likely die. Maybe that will teach them a lesson and make them look into better care, or get rid of their other goat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What an awful thing to be happening to this poor goat. I understand the money issue, I've been there before. But if they can't afford those cheap things for some reason now, take out a loan or borrow some cash from somebody. Local goat groups also often get together and help. The fact that she has refused everything, means she does not care for this poor animal. She should not have any goats period. Try to stay calm. You don't want her to get so mad at you she refuses to let you see/update you on the poor girl. Is there any way you can take her, or know some who can, who could give her what she needs? And at least give her a shot at getting better. If not this goat will likely die. Maybe that will teach them a lesson and make them look into better care, or get rid of their other goat.
I don't think the owner would be willing to give her up. I think she'd rather think she did all she could and have her pass and that's that. I am not hating on this person, as she is very caring in certain aspects. I try not to go for an ad hominem attack, and simply say she does not have what it takes to care for goats.

There are a lot of things she could have done. I told her that I'll help her with what she has to try and get the goat better, and after that I'm done. I consult with many people, never have I met someone so unwilling to help their goat for such a small expense in the grand scheme of things.

If you ask me, this was a long time coming, for this goat. She was born prematurely with her hooves undeveloped and gelatinous in texture, she couldn't walk. She is 30lbs for what should be at least a 45-50lb goat.

I think had the goat been started early on minerals she would have had a better chance on a normal life. However she is weak, so I am not surprised she is the only one affected.

I don't think her owner has quite learned how to be proactive yet. Starting to with my help, actually got some copper boluses and selenium gel, admitted to deficiencies. But her goats are ridden with lice, hair loss from copper and zinc deficiencies, obvious long lasting selenium deficiencies.

It's rough. However I feel bad because I was getting so close, so close to helping her realize how to make change for the better, and I know she will, and I know this will become a learning experience for her. However, I hope those goats stay healthy, because if they are not, she does not have the means to get them better.

No vet no pets, Maria said it all!
 

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No money for treatment, then it is time to ask a very good gunner to put a bullet in the neck of the poor goat! Aim for a spot some 1-2 centimeters behind the horns (there it is a fontanelle), and then towards the tunge inside the head, so the bullet goes a LITTLE beside the centrum line (to avoid lobotomy), and the usual "Middle Between Ears And Eyes".

Never shoot a goat or a sheep in the forehead! The bone is thicker there.

If possible, offer the goat something nice to drink, maybe she will then hold her head better still for the gunner. But wait with putting the drinking bowl on the ground until the gunner says "Now!", because he/she will not have many seconds to aim. And the surface to hit is small, only some 8-10 millimeters in diameter. Step aside to let the gunner concentrate.

Pity your friendship seems to be at an end. Those goats might need it...

PS Do prevent the other animals from seeing the shot! /Trollmor
 

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Honestly, i see this as borderline neglect.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/animal-neglect/
Of course, you should check you own state/the laws of their state and see what is considered neglect in your state specifically. You can call anonymously, but wouldn't be a terrible shocker if the friendship is lost and they are upset with you. But having SPCA, ASPCA, Humane society, etc. come out, may be enough to force them to get care and hopefully be their wake up call. You would be surprised how much a quick visit could change someone. I DO NOT like to judge people without knowing their side of the story, but when animals are involved and suffering, unless the animal is a rescue, or is already seeing a vet for the problems, i don't think so much about their side.
But her goats are ridden with lice, hair loss from copper and zinc deficiencies, obvious long-lasting selenium deficiencies
They should not be living like that. And they should not be refusing vet care/or at least trying to care for her. I am so grateful that you are making some progress with her and she is starting to make progress, but if this goat get any worse and is in obvious pain and they won't either put her down or give her vet care. A call is what i would be considering. That goat could get worse, and will slowly starve to dead if she doesn't eat/get tubed. That would be an awful, and slow painful death. I have been on the end of a "animal cruelty" call. Cause I was apparently starving my dog to death according to my neighbors. The cops came down (right when I was feeding him which was ironic) He had bone cancer, as well as hip dysplasia. He was getting vet care at the time. They apologized, gave me tips on his care, which i appreciated but was already doing. He was getting canned food(2 cans a day) and 8 cups of dry food that my vet recommended. I had to put that dog down not even a month later. Those last few weeks he was with me, i was constantly stressed and worried someone will take him away from me. After he passed away, during the worst winter for Idaho in over 10 years. While i was still grieveing the loss of him, i forgot to shovel the snow off my barn. It collapsed and killed 80% of my previous herd. That just made me feel even worse and want to give up on everything. Point being, I am not one to judge. But just having that officer, or SPCA, etc. Person out there, maybe it will give them enough scare to bring their animals into the vet. Or at least try and give them proper(and inexpensive) care that they need. I would just be worried they chalk this up to be "Oh, well. She was a preemie she was always sick" and than it happens or something happen to one of their other goats and it goes through the same thing, and they won't provide any care for him/her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Honestly, i see this as borderline neglect.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/animal-neglect/
Of course, you should check you own state/the laws of their state and see what is considered neglect in your state specifically. You can call anonymously, but wouldn't be a terrible shocker if the friendship is lost and they are upset with you. But having SPCA, ASPCA, Humane society, etc. come out, may be enough to force them to get care and hopefully be their wake up call. You would be surprised how much a quick visit could change someone. I DO NOT like to judge people without knowing their side of the story, but when animals are involved and suffering, unless the animal is a rescue, or is already seeing a vet for the problems, i don't think so much about their side.
They should not be living like that. And they should not be refusing vet care/or at least trying to care for her. I am so grateful that you are making some progress with her and she is starting to make progress, but if this goat get any worse and is in obvious pain and they won't either put her down or give her vet care. A call is what i would be considering. That goat could get worse, and will slowly starve to dead if she doesn't eat/get tubed. That would be an awful, and slow painful death. I have been on the end of a "animal cruelty" call. Cause I was apparently starving my dog to death according to my neighbors. The cops came down (right when I was feeding him which was ironic) He had bone cancer, as well as hip dysplasia. He was getting vet care at the time. They apologized, gave me tips on his care, which i appreciated but was already doing. He was getting canned food(2 cans a day) and 8 cups of dry food that my vet recommended. I had to put that dog down not even a month later. Those last few weeks he was with me, i was constantly stressed and worried someone will take him away from me. After he passed away, during the worst winter for Idaho in over 10 years. While i was still grieveing the loss of him, i forgot to shovel the snow off my barn. It collapsed and killed 80% of my previous herd. That just made me feel even worse and want to give up on everything. Point being, I am not one to judge. But just having that officer, or SPCA, etc. Person out there, maybe it will give them enough scare to bring their animals into the vet. Or at least try and give them proper(and inexpensive) care that they need. I would just be worried they chalk this up to be "Oh, well. She was a preemie she was always sick" and than it happens or something happen to one of their other goats and it goes through the same thing, and they won't provide any care for him/her.
I've considered this. However, I don't think I could do it. She is making efforts. She is getting them on minerals and bolusing them and treating for lice. I can't do it yet. She has a YouTube channel and an Instagram page which I will continue to follow and keep a very close watch on her goats.
 

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Ahaaa, so she IS doing something! That sounds much better! Thanks for informing! Earlier, I got the picture of a person unable to feel for an animal, or for that part, for another human being. Lack of empathy, some people simply don't have the ability.

Good you can keep an eye on them, goats and woman! If she is alone, it might be an additional difficulty for her.

And I agree, there is no good in judging!
 

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That is definitely a good idea. At this point, you are probably the only thing from keeping the poor goat(s) out of deaths doors. If at any point you clearly see the poor goat in pain, and they refuse to put her down or give her to you, or someone else. That's when i think it would be best to call. You can let them know she is trying to care for them, and she is doing the best she can. But she has refused all of your attempts to help and refused to bring the animal to the vet. Very rarely will they take the animals away in situations like this where it is not purposeful neglect. But it is certainly a wake-up call to have them there, and they almost always advise what needs to be done and changed and come for a follow up visit. I certainly hope that she can continue to listen to your advice and learn, and provide better care for her goats. Definitely keep us updated if you can. Would love to see how this turns out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ahaaa, so she IS doing something! That sounds much better! Thanks for informing! Earlier, I got the picture of a person unable to feel for an animal, or for that part, for another human being. Lack of empathy, some people simply don't have the ability.

Good you can keep an eye on them, goats and woman! If she is alone, it might be an additional difficulty for her.

And I agree, there is no good in judging!
No she is not heartless nor enjoying their suffering.

She is trying to make an effort with "the best she has."

She understands when things need to be treated, she doesn't ignore symptoms, at least not after I tell her what is wrong. However, the extent of her treatment ability is next to nothing. She can give injections of penicillin, ivermectin, and b complex. She can supply a bare basic loose mineral blend. She can copper bolus. She can even now supply selenium gel. This took a lot of convincing but she manages to slip by with the bare minimum.

I am extravagant with my animals, I would have no food on my table for a week if it meant helping one of my babies. I don't keep antibiotics or anything on hand, but have multiple vets, one within 5 minutes of me, and I can get what I need if I need it.

She has a budget for her animal supplies, and once it's spent it's spent and she won't take out another penny.

Not completely hopeless, no. And not a bad person. Just does not understand the extent of which animal care must come before your own. After a long ride you let your horse drink first, in the rain you hold the umbrella over your goats (metaphor, cause mine would eat an umbrella). Either way, I would pay more money than I would on my animals' health care than my own. This is what being a true pet owner is.

I didn't even hate on her for not being willing to get a vet, or alfalfa pellets, and so on. Because I understood her sensitive budget situation. But when she refused to spend MINIMAL amounts of money I drew the line.

She is married and has a young child, not alone nor is insensitive. A very loving woman for the most part.
 
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