At a loss as far as minerals go

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by liz, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I knew my goats were copper deficient last summer...I researched EVERYTHING extensively as far as fixing it and decided on Copper Sulfate drenches with devastating results....I poisoned my girls and cause Tilly to die. :sigh:

    I don't want to risk a bolus because of this AND the fact that I've read that pygmies can be copper sensitive...I changed their minerals in July to the Hoeggars Golden Blend , my bucks have been on this since then and I've had my girls on the Manna Pro since November....My black pygmy buck has VERY red hair tips and my black does have red as well...their hair is very soft and not brittle though.

    The copper content is .15% in the Golden Blend and 1350ppm in the Manna Pro
    I don't understand why I haven't had any luck even with the higher copper content in the minerals :hair: They go through them like it's grain so it's not like they aren't eating them :?
     
  2. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    well you've got to remember that the hair is growing out, so the red tips are just the remnant from when they were deficient. Sounds to me like the minerals are working. just takes time
     

  3. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Honestly, the only way I have been able to get copper in my guys is through Copper bolusing with copasure, sorry. :(
     
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I agree with both Sarah and Ashley

    first wait to see how the hair comes in after shedding out and then you may have to resort to the bolusing. Its safe, I know you arent keen on it but if the red hair bothers you that much its the only option I can think of
     
  5. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    I think you should give it time too. I have a vet with a big herd of dairy goats and three decades of experience and he does not supplement copper other than minerals, he uses (and I use) Ranch-O-Min goat minerals. (You have to be sure you get the goat ones, they look just like the other ones, you have to read the label sewn to the bottom) They have about the same amount of copper as the ones you mention and Purina goat minerals, although I don't think the copper in the purina minerals absorbs as well. He never recommends any routine bolusing or any other copper supplements. He is actually more worried about giving his goats too much copper. The problem is, as you found out, that you can't detect copper toxicity until it's too late without a liver biopsy. I'm very sorry you had such a terrible problem, I don't think routine copper supplements are a good idea, other than the loose minerals. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but I'm sticking with my vet.

    Jan
     
  6. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    My issue with the bolus is this, once it's there, it's there no getting it back if there is a problem. Thats why I did the drench....there were ways to "get it out" and I was fortunate enough to be able to "get it out" when the poisoning happened with the Activated Charcoal and the MOM. Bolusing at this point would scare me simply because I know they store copper in the liver and with the amounts they've been getting in the minerals lately I would be really afraid of an OD.

    I guess I'm stuck with red/black goats unless the deficiency starts causing other problems..... or until I shave them so I'm not stressing over the red tinge :wink:
    I do know that the levels of other minerals need to be a certain ratio to allow for copper absorption and that too much iron will cause the inability to absorb, the manna pro is a grey mineral so there is not too much iron added, my goats are eating dirt too...and my soil is a yellow clay with ALOT of iron in it. :shrug:
    Thanks a bunch for your input...I just hope that the red will grow out or shed out.
     
  7. Gumtree

    Gumtree Lurking Aussie

    585
    Aug 15, 2009
    S.E. Qld Australia
    Liz
    did you just give them copper?

    if you would like me to I will give the recipe that was given to me by a natural vet over here
    Mineral recipe
    worm drench etc

    edited to add

    do you have dolomite it will rectify copper poisoning ????
     
  8. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    Just give it more time. When I first got my Benny, his coat looked terrible--all bleached out and brittle...and he had NO HAIR at all on his tail...it was bald! It took 8-9 months of good minerals before he shed out all of the crummy hairs and started to look good.
     
  9. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    They have the copper in the mineral at this point...the copper drench was used back in June.....wierd thing about that though was that it affected my yearling cross does the worst and by the time Tilly, the doe I lost showed symptoms of toxicity it was already too late. My 2 cross does (2 and 9 years) as well as my nigi were not affected by toxicity :shrug:

    I figure that I'll have to give it more time, my black pygmy buck just turned 6 years old and he's been here since he was 6 weeks old...I just started to notice the change on him a year ago, so if it took this long to "appear" I expect it will take longer for the signs to diminish.
    Each goat also gets grain...and that too has added copper in it.
     
  10. Dreamchaser

    Dreamchaser New Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Camp Verde, AZ
    I feed my goats Farmers Best, the same manufacturer of LMF feeds. The feed has copper in it, so they get some of what they need. If they need more, I provide loose minerals for them. I make a mix of several different pelleted feeds, partly I give Ram and Ewe, mixed with lactating goat, and alfalfa pellets.
     
  11. CrossCreekTX

    CrossCreekTX New Member

    356
    Aug 10, 2009
    Central East Texas
    I keep copper sulfate in one water container. They can drink from that one or from another that has no copper. I also feed free choice dolomite which prevents toxicity.
     
  12. greatcashmeres

    greatcashmeres New Member

    Jul 13, 2008
    Maine
    Liz you may have already read this from your research, but I am providing the link http://www.kinne.net/cu-def.htm
    At the end of the article it references Dr. Patricia Talcott and a phone # but I Googled her name in case the info was old and got this for her: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/research_vcapp/talcott.aspx I thought you might want to contact her and pick her brain-she might reassure you that you are on the right track and just need to wait. :)

    Some things I have been reading suggest goats don't really eat the minerals they need free choice.
    Do you witness them all eating the minerals, are there some that look better than others, and is it possible only the better looking ones are doing the eating?
     
  13. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I see each of my 6 girls routinely at the feeder and each of my 3 boys have their faces in theirs 3-4 times while I'm with them....even my little 5 week old buckling finds the feeder.

    Thank you for the info Laura...I did read the info on Kinnes, I'll check out the other as soon as I can.
     
  14. greatcashmeres

    greatcashmeres New Member

    Jul 13, 2008
    Maine
    Hmmm, then it may be just a waiting thing. You're welcome for the info. :)