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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright guys... I am at my wits end with this, and completely frustrated.

Some may remember we had 2 kids with Umbilical issues back in Feb and Mar- 1st one had a massive infection before we realized he had an issue. This was when the kids were around 4-8 weeks old. Buck kid abscess ruptured, cleaned out, but left him with a hernia. Doe kid, I caught before it got bad, but still herniated - hers was always kind of soft to begin with and was more like a regular hernia.
We sold both babies (buckling is a meat goat and doeling was fixed - vet apparently said easy fix).

When the buckling had his I was checking everyone. At the time I only found signs of 'crust' around 2 doelings umbilical's, and everyone else appeared to be fine. One of those does is the one that herniated.

Now the 3rd one has a very hard knot on her umbilical area! UGH. She is a keeper doe and I am very frustrated.
I've had someone tell me to treat with Nuflor and spray with Iodine. Anyone else ever deal with this in an older kid?
I'm going to go inspect it better in a few minutes so someone can hold her, but when I felt it, it felt very hard, and didn't feel like the other doe where she felt like she had a hole and could push it back in. If this is infection that causes hernia, I'd really like to try and stop it before it gets worse.

I can get a bottle of Nuflor or if my neighbor has Nuflor I can possibly get a dose right now to try.... Any help would be appreciated.

Because of how this started, I don't think it's a genetic issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks, it's definitely been strange. I just literately stopped checking her belly about 10 days ago! I was paranoid after the first 2 and wanted to keep an eye on it. Figured she was fine, then today brushing her something told me to check her.

My neighbor has a bottle of Nuflor, so I got a dose from her. She has a new bottle that just recently expired, so I may just get enough to finish out treatment and then buy a bottle to keep on hand and if she needs some she can get it from me vs. us both having to buy it.

I noticed while observing her this afternoon that the abscess does bother her, she tends to sit up on her knees more than usual. Doesn't like you to touch it. It's not very big, thankfully but that could certainly change.
 

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Try the nuflor, but if you can get Baytril that would be better.
So I think you do have a infection issue going on, and the one with the hernia I’m thinking maybe it started out as a infection and it ended up pushing on the stomach and causing it to rip and cause a hernia.
I’ve been having strange umbilical issues too. Not a lot. But last year I had my first ever joint ill and another kid had the big infection going on. I didn’t want to risk it being a strange hernia so I chose not to lance it. Anyways we had another one this year that was kinda giving me mixed signals on what it was it was kinda hard but also mushy. I can’t explain it. Again culled her. So really not enough to flip about but enough, especially never having a issue to say hmmm.
So one thing though that I read not long ago is someone on here stated they dip feet in iodine at birth. I remember reading that a long time ago and kinda went past it because it, at the time didn’t make sense......in my new to goats mind. But really if you think about it, it’s claimed that goats can get tetanus threw their hoofs so why wouldn’t they get something like a bacteria, especially on those soft new born hoofs. So something to think about but I went ahead and started on these last few kids and will keep doing it and see if it puts a end to the random belly button issue.
I know that doesn’t help you with the doe now, but just thought I would share because it sounds like we both have some stupid thing going on. But back to the baytril, it’s supposed to be the best for joint and navil I’ll because if treats a few different bacteria’s not just one.
 

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What are you all using as a navel dip? I've always dipped the feet in iodine, it seems to keep the navel ill at bay. I had a terrible time 6 or 8 years ago. After I started dipping, things got better.

(Edited to make more sense, autocorrect is asking whacky today).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Jessica - Thank you for reply. I'd never heard of dipping feet! I will definitely try that. A friend suggested switching to Triodine 7 so I am going to look for that tomorrow. I hope you can put an end to your issues as well. It's definitely been strange! Honestly, after talking with my friend I'm wondering if our stall mats could be part of the issue - we haven't pulled them out to clean in forever. I've cleaned the tops, and used lime on them randomly, but actually cleaning under them... I found some cleaner in the shed that my husband was given years ago - this is what the horse farm uses to clean/disinfect their barns. They left this unopened bottle at their old farm and it would have been thrown away.
I'm going to google and see how safe it is to use, how to dilute, etc.


Looking at the forecast, tomorrow looks warm and sunny so I am going to have my daughter help me pull out as many stall mats as we can - disinfect and scrub both sides, put down barn lime underneath and spray walls.
Eventually - we'll be pulling everything out and digging up the ground a bit so we can put
Class I sand down, and lay the mats over those. If your not familiar with Class I sand, it's very tiny gravel - horse farms like to use it a lot especially around gates, automatic waterers, walking paths, etc.

Back on the subject of dipping cords - I always dip cords, but this year I used the Durvet Wound spray because it stated on the label it was for dipping cords, so I thought why?


But normally I use something like this - I put it in an empty/rinsed out water bottle, put kids back against my stomach, put cord in the water bottle, place water bottle against the belly and flip the bottle up so the cord is submerged in the solution. I swish it back and forth a few times. Any long cords I generally use finger nails to cut shorter, or tie off with dental floss and trim with scissors.

Never had any issues before. However in the last 2 years we've had some random Staph infection on goats. Didn't realize it was staph until I saw 2 does in February with some sores on their udders. I even took 2 to the vet last year to try and get answers and Nada... but antibiotics cleared it up, and realized that Chlorhexidine worked on clearing it up as well.
 

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The reason I asked about what iodine, I always used the controlled iodine spray you have listed. Then I switched to something else and just wasn't as happy as with the iodine. The reason iodine is used is to dry up the cord (and disinfect it) and I put on feet because they are still soft and can absorb stuff. So, the iodine helps disinfect and dry and seal the feet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The reason I asked about what iodine, I always used the controlled iodine spray you have listed. Then I switched to something else and just wasn't as happy as with the iodine. The reason iodine is used is to dry up the cord (and disinfect it) and I put on feet because they are still soft and can absorb stuff. So, the iodine helps disinfect and dry and seal the feet.
Thanks. Yep I always do cords for the same reasons. Just never heard of doing feet - but we'd never had an issue before to warrant needing to do anything more.
I usually get Iodine from the pharmacy, I used the brand mentioned above last year just because I had it on hand, but don't remember what it was that I was using the years prior - something from Walmart pharmacy. A good friend/breeder recommended Triodine 7, so I am going to get that and try that for babies.
 

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You know what though I’m not sure if maybe subconsciously I’m paying attention more this year or what but it seems like a number of people are having joint and navel ill issues this year. Not just in one area but across the board. Just seems kinda odd to me and I’m wondering if the all around goofy weather all over might be part of the issue. Maybe new bacteria that we don’t normally deal with? I’m really not sure just seems weird to me. I just saw a post this morning someone looking for baytril for joint ill.
Goats rock I thought that was you that posted about dipping the feet but wasn’t 100% and didn’t want to call you out on it lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I agree, it has overall been a crazy, weird year. I have also been seeing a lot of posts about joint ill, and also floppy kid syndrome. In fact a local friend/breeder had issues with I believe silent pneumonia and floppy kid syndrome.
I definitely think it's a bacterial infection. I wonder if Staph would get into umbilical cord? If so, then I'd bet that has to be it. We had 2 does in Feb that developed staph on their udders and got it cleared up quickly. The past 2 summers we had some issues with weird sores on goats back legs,it was very random, but thought it was from flies, and it dawned on me in Feb that it was most likely staph :( I worry about it possibly being the stall mats because we installed them a few years ago - I really didn't know you are supposed to pull them up and clean both sides regularly! So I can only imagine what is festering underneath! We'd talked before about pulling them up to work on the floor, so we'll definitely be doing that. I am impatient to get it dealt with. Right now the floors are a mess. Last year we had a rat that dug out the floor under the middle stall mat and though we killed the rat the damage was done - floors are so uneven.

On top of that it was a very mild and wet winter. It was hard to keep stalls dry. I did deep bedding, so top layer was dry, but I wonder how much the bottom layer would affect them. maybe with better drainage under the mats if this is the issue we can fix it. I really like the mats because they keep us from digging into the floor when cleaning. We'll just have to work on cleaning the mats more often!
 

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Yes believe staph can be a issue because with that kid that had joint ill everything talked about what to give depending on what bacteria. And staph was mentioned because I remember thinking heck you would think is what caused it I would see more of it. Anyways so that might be what you have going in but unless you have it tested there’s really no telling what it is.
Honestly I never would have thought to pull up the Matt’s and totally clean both sides either. I would have just cleaning the top stuff up and then maybe but some lye or sprayed bleach. But that is good to know because I was debating on putting Mats down when I put this big shelter up. So now I know I will need to pull them and clean them.
 

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I tried the big heavy horse mats, it took two men and a boy to move them. If you go the mat route, use ones that you can easily move, otherwise, it makes a hard chore even harder! (And then you avoid doing it, or at least I do!).

I got rid of the unwieldy mats when I built the new barn with all concrete. (Where I should be out cleaning instead of procrastinating!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yep, I'm definitely leaning towards Staph. Now I'm wondering how/where it came from or how to prevent it. For now I'll lime the mats as best I can. The knot on the does belly is not getting any bigger from what I can tell/feel, and one side feels softer today - it was rock hard when I discovered it Saturday. Today was day #3 for Nuflor and Iodine spraying. I didn't get to go get the Triodine today, so I will do that tomorrow for sure as I need more barn lime.

I agree, those big horse stall mats are heavy. The ones we were given I believe are the regular size mats.

I shared this with a friend, but this is how I normally keep weanling stalls - they generally like to do their 'bathroom stuff' on the hay, and when weather is nice, a lot of times they will sleep directly on the stall mat. So usually 2x a day I'll bed them down like this (boys stall). I just started using the lime again. I'll deep bed it for 2-3 days - clean out when it gets yucky, otherwise I add more bedding on top. I just started using the barn lime again and also putting it in the bedding.




Other days they love to sleep in the bedding or go half and half lol this was yesterday evening. The last 2 evenings I haven't swept the bedding back and fluffed it up but they don't mind.


I do the girls side similarly, I just don't have pictures. They have a bigger area, but I do it similarly. They have their 'bathroom' area and then like to sleep in other areas with or without bedding.
 

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I’m so happy I said something because I was going to get the big heavy mats because i figures they would last longer. My brother gave me these thin mats years ago, they were used around a ice rink for people that ice skate and those came out in pieces after the first year. So I’ll skip the mats :/
I think staph just happens! From my understanding it’s just there, even we have a degree of it. And then add perfect weather to it or a perfect condition and there’s a issue. This is all just assuming not scientific facts lol but I had a big fat pig of a doe and every time she was bred she would lay there and pee herself. She ended up with staph, as soon a I saw it I put her by herself and treated but no one else got it. And EVERY year she did this. Finally my yuck factor was done with it and I sold her but I don’t see how environment would be different. A warm year? A more wet then normal year? I notice usually those are the years something seems to pop up and no matter the cleaning it still comes up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Today she'll get her 4th shot of Nuflor, and I also bought the Triodine 7 solution to start using. I noticed this morning it's much softer, and no bigger, so fingers crossed it's getting better and wont' herniate. If it does herniate we'll have to get her fixed. My son plans to show her if there are summer shows, so fingers crossed.

Jessica - I will try to get pictures of our mats - they aren't horrible, they are thick, heavy yes, but my husband and one of the kids could lift them. If my arm wasn't bother me then my daughter and I could move one of these together. They have been very durable, we got them around 3 or 4 years ago. I do agree, I think it's something that is always here, but I wonder how much of it could be kept alive and well within the stall mats? Who knows? it's crazy I'll leave it at that lol! We built up the buck shelter floor with Class I sand and my husband put an old billboard canvas over it to pack down the Class I sand since it is tiny gravel. It's a pain to keep clean because of the cover, but it's packed down firmly so we're wanting to take the cover out and put some stall mats that we have in our driveway (lol) in the buck shelter - specifically in the area where they like to pee - so when we clean we don't dig out the sand. I do know the Class I sand has worked great in there so far. Ideally, I'd probably want to do away with mats and just have the sand floor, but I feel we'll dig it up when cleaning. I think for a truck load it's around $220 give or take so not terrible, but not pocket change.

Courtney - Thanks, and yes I agree, crazy year for sure. We had a smooth kidding season - smoothest we've had in a while, so of course we had to have issues pop up afterward. I helped friends with weird kidding issues and illnesses as well. Maybe we're just destined to have a weird year? Of course I am saying that I hope I am not jinxing myself! because we have 2 pregnant does due soon, and praying they also have a smooth kidding and no issues. I'll be keeping a very close eye on their babies umbilical cords and using the Triodine 7 as recommended by a friend and dip cords and feet (thanks for the suggestion Goats Rock & Jessica).
 
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