[simeo]

Hey there, I just signed up for an account here because I've been looking around the forums and tried things but I wanted to make a specific post after today.

Two weekends ago my wife and I went to the auction (I know I know.....) and ended up with two goats. A Nanny Kiko/Boer about 2 months old and a Nubian milker about 5-6 years old(?).

We got two because there are our first goats and we heard it's not good for them to be alone. We're just starting out but we'd like to have more in the near future.... not from the auction.

My daughter named the white baby goat, "Color", and my wife and I named the Nubian "Judy". Judy had a number 14 tag on her like she was a production milker so we figured they were done with her and wanted some "fresh blood" so that's why they sold her at auction.

When we got them home I noticed both of them were Anemic by Famacha testing a friend taught me on her farm. So I panicked.

That night I dosed them both with Valbazen according to label and the next day we rushed to my friend's farm for her to look them over. She told me they were both very pale pink but not "white". She gave me Equi-cell to give them both every day and dewormed them both with Prohibit. She also told me to give them probiotics every day for a while.

Weights are Judy-> 124lbs, Color->20lbs

She also told me the baby needs to be bottle fed at her age (and was horrified they sold her at an auction) and to come back in two days to do fecals.

We also started giving alternating injections of fortified B-Complex and Maxi-B 1000 (B12 1000mg) once per day. One day B-Complex, the next B12.

In the meantime I noticed Color start to poop out a lot of white "grubs" which I later found out were tapes. Judy and Color both had some serious diarrhea when I got them.

On that Tuesday I gathered fresh fecals and proceed to my friends house to do counts under her microscope. Suffice to say Color had about 100/gram and Judy was loaded. I believe it was about 2800/gram. (something crazy that made my friend say "That's totally unacceptable!") I started picking up all their poop from their area to minimize the parasites.

5 Days later (1 week after having the goats), Judy started pooping solid and Color started pooping soft (not runny), we went back to my friends house to redo fecals. Parasites were almost none existent in these fecals but we noticed a lot of Coccidia in Color. We started her on Albon for 6 days. The next day after her first treatment Color started pooping solid finally!

We dewormed Color and Judy on the 10th day with Valbazen and Prohibit. (this past Wednesday)

I continued to worm Color with Valbazen 3 days. No tapes, solid poop and her eyelids are getting redder

Color didn't really want to be bottle fed at first, but now comes when I call her (2 weeks later) and jumps in my lap to drink up the milk. I'm giving her vitamin D milk with Probios in it twice a day. She's a pretty awesome baby goat. I was most worried about her because I've heard how hard it could be for babies to recover.

We milk Judy once a day in the morning. Usually she gives us about 1 1/2 cups of milk which we give to the baby one of the two feedings. Every morning Judy has clear/white snot, tearing eyes, and sometimes a flemmy cough.

Today she only gave us 1/2 a cup of milk. (first time) And today her poop was like soft blobs. No pellets. I'm worried for Judy and I'm not sure what more we could do to help her and Color recover.

Am I doing anything wrong? Am I missing something? It's been 14 days since we got them.

To Recap every day they get:

• 7g Probios
• B12 or B-Complex Shot given according to weight
• Equi-cell 10cc
• Color: 2 8-10oz of milk
• Valbazen/Prohibit 1st day, 10th day after that and 10th day next Saturday

Thank you for any help you could offer to get these girls healthy again.

 

[simeo]

Valbazen is usually be dosed at 1cc per 10 lbs. It sounds like you are doing what you can for them. It takes time to expel all the worms and to get rid of the anemia. But it sounds like you have a great goat mentor.

Have you taken a temp on them yet? Judy may have shipping fever or the start of a respiratory infection. She may need antibiotics. You can use Tylan 200 for over the counter. Nuflor or Draxxin is very good but are both Rx.

Thank you. I'm grateful for the help my friend has been able to give us. On top of the diagnosing she's taught us how to trim the hoofs, brush them and regular care.

So I seem to be doing things right?

I have not been able to take a temp yet. That's the only thing I haven't done. I purchased a thermometer from the Farmers Exchange but it seems to have the mercury missing (called the manufacturer, was a defect) so I need to return and exchange.

I'll take temps later and post them here.

 

[simeo]

Ok I took temps.

Judy is 102.2 and her poop looks very watery now compared to this morning even.

Color is 104.0

Thoughts? I can't get to farmers exchange today because they're closed until Monday. I could give Judy some activated charcoal...

 

[simeo]

Colors, temp is a bit high...if he is doing well otherwise I would re check in the cool of the evening..if its still high I would get him on antibiotics..Tylan 200 is a good OTC choice or for RX Nuflor is a good choice..

Give Joy a good dose of Pepto to sooth her tummy and help dry her bum
Electrolytes to keep her hydrated (recipe to follow)
C D antitoxin is needed..if you dont have any or cant get it Milk of Magnesia 15 cc per 60# to bind toxins..Activated Charcol wont hurt either

What color is her stool?? color helps us figure out the cause..which is needed in order to treat correctly..

Yea Color seems to be doing ok now compared to 1 week ago, but her temp is high. She's about a 4/3 on the Famacha score depend on which eye I look at but that's an improvement from a 5/4 two weeks ago. Same with Judy on the score.

I'll check temp again in the morning when I give her milk. Maybe it was the time of day? It's been hot here, but she does sneeze sometimes. Don't know if it's dust or an issue.

Judy's stool is dark-brown/black. It was still liquid tonight when I put them up. I gave her some activated charcoal because it's what I had on hand but don't have any pepto or Magnesia around. I'll need to pick it up tomorrow.

Farm Exchange is closed until Monday so the CD-Antitoxin and/or antibiotics will have to wait. Started giving GSE tonight. I use it for myself as an antibiotic (as well as Activated Charcoal when I have diarrhea) so hopefully it will work for the girls?

 

[simeo]

When I did fecals on the two of them Judy did have Coccidia eggs but I thought it didn't really effect older goats? We treated Color for Coccidia but we didn't treat Judy.

We have Albon, would this be ok to treat her with? It's the same thing we treated Color with. Do we need to retreat Color for Cocci too?

Edit: I found that recipe here in another post and I've been giving it to them both every day. They LOVE it. Judy tries to fight me for it so I need to make sure Color gets at it before Judy drinks the whole thing!

 

[simeo]

Yes Adult goat can get cocci...stress opens the door for parasites, including cocci to multiply and take over...Albon is a good choice...

Ok, gave her 25cc of Albon just now. Should I retreat Color since she's eating in the same area? I'd been picking up the pellet poop but this diarrhea is very hard for me to remove.

I found this article with reaffirms adult goats get and even die from Cocci. My friend had told me it was no big deal when we found the Cocci in Judy's fecals. I guess it was.... I feel a little stupid.

Will let you know how things go. Color responded very quickly after her first treatment, let's hope Judy does too.

I have them in a small area of my pasture (55x50ft pen) to keep things contained until they get over what's inside them. They have access to Blackberry and other "weeds", hay, and pelleted goat feed w/ Calf-Manna mixed in it.

Update: This morning Color has white snot and crusty/teary eyes. Color does have a lot of energy though and greedily took her bottle. Judy only gave 1/3 a cup of milk from her usual 1 1/2 cup.

 

[simeo]

I just thought I should post pictures of Color and Judy. This was from 10 days ago. This was when Color didn't want to come close and Judy still had her old ID tag on. I'll post updated photos later.

Thank you guys so much for your help! I'm super worried for them. They're my first goats.... but I'll NEVER buy goats from the auction again.

 

[simeo]

With them both living together, Color could easily pick up what Judy has. If you are treating Judy for pneumonia, I would go ahead and treat Color

Sorry for the double post. Will do treat them both when I can get a hold of the antibiotics. Should I retreat Color with Albon for Cocci as well??

I really hope Cocci is the problem happybleats. If it is at least I have the medicine to treat it.

 

[simeo]

Quick update. I treated Judy with Albon earlier and about 2 hours(ish) later she started pooping semi-solid. As of tonight she's pooping solid! So she did have Cocci... will keep her on treatment another 5-7 days then retreat Color for Cocci on the 14th (2nd week) just in case.

Color tonight has super watery/crusty eyes. Will treat them for Pneumonia asap.

So both of them had/has pneumonia, cocci, minor anemia and worms.

My wife said "Nothing like learning everything on your first try!" This is like diving head in without learning to swim first. But at least now I've learned a lot and I couldn't imagine what would have been their fate otherwise.

Would get a CAE, CL & Johnes test done on the adult...especially feeding milk to the baby. CAE & Johnes can be passed through the milk...

I wish I knew that before we gave Color Judy's milk... now I'm worried. Should I just stop using Judy's milk completely or is one time enough to infect Color?

Now.... kind of to summarize what I need to do I'm a little confused about Milk of Magnesia and Pepto (what happybleats mentioned earlier). Should I still give Judy Milk of Magnesia while treating for Cocci and Pneumonia and Anemia? Should I give it to Color? If Judy's diarrhea is now clearing up do I still need to give her Pepto? Should I wait until I'm finished treating for xyz and then start her on Milk of Magnesia/CD Antitoxin?

I'm still continuing daily:

• 7g Probios
• B12 or B-Complex Shot given according to weight
• Equi-cell 10cc
• Color: 2 8-10oz of milk
• Valbazen/Prohibit 1st day, 10th day after that and 10th day next Saturday

So I should add now:

• For the next 5-7 days Albon for Judy and in 10 days Albon again for Color.
• An oxytetracyline (LA 200, Biomycin, Duramycin) 1cc per 20lbs once a day for 5 days or Tylan 200
• And their final round of deworming on Saturday

Do I need to add Milk of Magnesia and/or CD Antitoxin to the mix? I feel like the poor things are getting a smorgasbord of chemical brews...

Thank you for the encouragement. I really want to see these two happy and healthy.

 

[simeo]

if Judy is firming up , eating well and drinking plenty..then skip the pepto and MOM..: ) As long as she is eating and chewing a cud , has good rumen function..skip the cd antitoxin as well..sounds like the Albon has begun to work on the issue and clearing things up...as a rule of thumb here..any time I see watery poop..I give C D Antitoxin..it doens't hurt to have it even if they end up not needing it..but man it can save her life if she does need it..so just keep some handy.

Yep, checked her fecals again this morning and they are solid again; Better than last night. She is definitely chewing her cud. She was displaying that this morning when my wife milked her. 1/2cup a milk again this morning.

When we have some income in I'll definitely have the CD Antitoxin on the shelf as well as "Goat" Pepto and MoM. :thumbup:

As for treatment for puenomia..I would choose tylan 200 over la 200..its better imo for this kind of infection..1 c c per 25# every 12 hours...for five days..

I called the Farmers Exchange and they don't keep Tylan 200 in stock. They said the could have it in by Thursday but I don't feel comfortable with that. They do have LA 200 and a "generic" LA 200 in stock. Do you think the generic LA 200 would work in a pinch here?

If Judy had CAE or Johnes..Color is already exposed...pulling her off Judy's milk most likely wont make a difference now..but if you want to be on the safe side you can switch her to whole cows milk from the store..do the switch slowly so not to upset tummy..go 3/4 judy's milk 1/3 cows milk a few days then 50/50 then 1/3 Judys milk and 3/4 cows then 100% cows..

Well.... Judy isn't giving much anymore anyway and we were only feeding her Judy's milk once a day because we didn't have enough to do twice.

Again..testing is a great idea...do wait for about 90 days after Judys last treatment of any antibiotic or wormer..

I'd guess Judy is about 5-7 years old by her teeth. From what I read Judy is not displaying the symptoms but still, we'll need to test them both.

Thank you so much for your help (everybody). I'll keep you posted. Please let me know if I can use the LA200 generic and I'll rush out to buy it now.

 

[simeo]

Tylan 200 is specifically for respiratory infection. LA200 is a general antibiotic. It can help. The Tylan would be better. But it is up to you on how bad the girls are and if you need to start right away or can wait. The generic of LA200 is fine if you choose that route.

I see. So it would probably be good to have both on hand. 1 for respiratory and 1 for general. I think, knowing that, I would like to give them the general "just in case". I don't know what else might be lingering under there...

What dose should I give of the LA 200?

Thank you all for your help! I'll keep you posted.

 

[simeo]

Two OTC antibiotics to keep on hand are Tylan 200 and Penicillin : )

What would I use the Penicillin for? Same thing as LA 200?

 

[simeo]

I gave them the LA200 about an hour and a half ago and just got back inside after doing a few things.

Boy they did NOT like that shot at all. Usually I give them B Injections and they have no problems with it at all. This time, giving them the injection it was very hard to press in and they seemed significantly uncomfortable. After I gave it to Judy she decided to "take a knee" for a moment. Color limped around for a while then did the same.

I sat with them both and watched them both chew their cud until they finally thought it was time to get up and act normal.

Upon trying to give them their B injection (in the other side), they started to run! Like "DO NOT WANT"... When I gave them the B injection though they didn't feel any pain or have any reaction like with the LA200. Color dozed in my arms for a moment then woke up and licked my chin. :hug:

Is it thick? Did I put it in the wrong spot? I gave 1cc to Color (20lbs) and 6cc to Judy (124lbs). I used a 20 gauge needle 1 inch deep. I injected in the "collarbone" at the base of the neck near the front right leg, IM. I pulled back a bit to check for blood but had strong resistance. The B shot I gave them this time was Sub-Q. Same needle type.

Should I use a different gauge? Is there another location I could give them the shot?

I rewarded them both with some goat pellet and calf-manna mix. I'll take temps in the morning.

get them wormed good and get them some good medicine and feed and give them plenty of hay for the upset tummy it dries it up lol

They don't really eat the hay.... don't know why. But they love the blackberries and maple trees in the field.

 

[simeo]

Yes..very thick...Use an 18 g needle and give it Sub Q..IM is very painful..LA 200 burns ALOT...so they will react either way but Sub Q seems to get done faster....I give it in the loose skin where the neck meets the body then get them moving ASAP..walking it off seems to get it out faster...I now i hate giving them stinging meds..

Got it. So tomorrow I'll go the farmers exchange and pick up some 18g's and give Sub-Q. I just read the injections were supposed to be IM.

I don't think getting them to move will be a problem. They'll RUN.

Thank you for all the help. Will keep you guys posted. The eyelids are still very light pink but I guess it takes a long time for the color to come back? It's hard to believe it's only been 2 weeks. I'm exhausted.

 

[simeo]

I took temps this morning:

Judy - 101.1
Color - 103.3

Judy has a limp this morning and doesn't really want to walk too much. It's in the same leg (I think) as I gave the shot in. Is it possible to still hurt her today? Her ankles don't look swollen or any swollen joints. Just kind of limps a bit and decides it's "time to lay down".

Judy gave about 1/2 cup of milk this morning.

I did not see any snot with Judy or Color and Color only had a little crust in her eye (about the same as what we have when we wake up).

Their Famacha score is still about a 4. How long does it take for them to pink back up?

 

[simeo]

Gave the second shot just now. 3cc to Judy and .5cc to Color following the daily plan Fiasco Farms gave for 3cc/100lbs. Judy should really be 3.5cc but I thought I gave her 6cc yesterday so maybe that would have just "jump started" things and 3cc would be fine....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

They both took the shot like a trooper! The 18g needle SubQ was way better and went easier!

Here's a picture of Judy after her shot today and Color not really wanting to be social. (she's funny, sometimes she likes me and most times she wants to run under Judy)

 

[simeo]

Just gave them their, Equi-cell, B and Antibiotic shots. After Color and I had a bonding moment. (she's still a little skiddish of me.... maybe because every time I see her if I don't have milk I have something to stick her with)

When I was scratching Judy I noticed she had something that looked like the pictures I've seen of bottle jaw, but it was between her legs going across in a U shape. (One end of the U being at one leg and the other end being at the other. The bowl of the U facing toward her front)

Should I be worried about that? I don't know what it is and I don't remember ever seeing or not seeing it before. It could have been there the whole time.

Poop is solid, oddly shaped and dark in Judy.

Poop is solid, round, and brown in Color.

Edit/Note: Thank you for moving this to "Health & Wellness". I think we're out of 911 at this point.