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I agree..treat Color two from her last treatment if fecal shows cocci...
There are other causes of black/brown runny poop...if she does not show improvement....we wil need to see what else if going on...
here is a link on goat poop and causes..always a good read lol..
http://goat-link.com/content/view/50/92/#.Uf6pbmSDQxc

Once you get them up and going, and you will, I would pull blood on Joy and test her for CAE. I would wait at least 90 days after her last dose of any medication for best results, and test Color when she is at least 6 months old...
I would Keep a close eye on both. Any changes in health...do a temp, check the eye lids, watch them poop..see whats going on there..look for bloat..ect...and of course..when in doubt...log on...we are ;) here it help
 

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Would get a CAE, CL & Johnes test done on the adult...especially feeding milk to the baby. CAE & Johnes can be passed through the milk...
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
Quick update. I treated Judy with Albon earlier and about 2 hours(ish) later she started pooping semi-solid. As of tonight she's pooping solid! So she did have Cocci... will keep her on treatment another 5-7 days then retreat Color for Cocci on the 14th (2nd week) just in case.

Color tonight has super watery/crusty eyes. Will treat them for Pneumonia asap.

So both of them had/has pneumonia, cocci, minor anemia and worms. :(

My wife said "Nothing like learning everything on your first try!" This is like diving head in without learning to swim first. But at least now I've learned a lot and I couldn't imagine what would have been their fate otherwise.

Would get a CAE, CL & Johnes test done on the adult...especially feeding milk to the baby. CAE & Johnes can be passed through the milk...
I wish I knew that before we gave Color Judy's milk... now I'm worried. Should I just stop using Judy's milk completely or is one time enough to infect Color? :confused:

Now.... kind of to summarize what I need to do I'm a little confused about Milk of Magnesia and Pepto (what happybleats mentioned earlier). Should I still give Judy Milk of Magnesia while treating for Cocci and Pneumonia and Anemia? Should I give it to Color? If Judy's diarrhea is now clearing up do I still need to give her Pepto? Should I wait until I'm finished treating for xyz and then start her on Milk of Magnesia/CD Antitoxin?

I'm still continuing daily:
  • 7g Probios
  • B12 or B-Complex Shot given according to weight
  • Equi-cell 10cc
  • Color: 2 8-10oz of milk
  • Valbazen/Prohibit 1st day, 10th day after that and 10th day next Saturday

So I should add now:
  • For the next 5-7 days Albon for Judy and in 10 days Albon again for Color.
  • An oxytetracyline (LA 200, Biomycin, Duramycin) 1cc per 20lbs once a day for 5 days or Tylan 200
  • And their final round of deworming on Saturday

Do I need to add Milk of Magnesia and/or CD Antitoxin to the mix? I feel like the poor things are getting a smorgasbord of chemical brews...

Thank you for the encouragement. I really want to see these two happy and healthy.
 

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if Judy is firming up , eating well and drinking plenty..then skip the pepto and MOM..: ) As long as she is eating and chewing a cud , has good rumen function..skip the cd antitoxin as well..sounds like the Albon has begun to work on the issue and clearing things up...as a rule of thumb here..any time I see watery poop..I give C D Antitoxin..it doens't hurt to have it even if they end up not needing it..but man it can save her life if she does need it..so just keep some handy.

As for treatment for puenomia..I would choose tylan 200 over la 200..its better imo for this kind of infection..1 c c per 25# every 12 hours...for five days..

If Judy had CAE or Johnes..Color is already exposed...pulling her off Judy's milk most likely wont make a difference now..but if you want to be on the safe side you can switch her to whole cows milk from the store..do the switch slowly so not to upset tummy..go 3/4 judy's milk 1/3 cows milk a few days then 50/50 then 1/3 Judys milk and 3/4 cows then 100% cows..
Again..testing is a great idea...do wait for about 90 days after Judys last treatment of any antibiotic or wormer..
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
if Judy is firming up , eating well and drinking plenty..then skip the pepto and MOM..: ) As long as she is eating and chewing a cud , has good rumen function..skip the cd antitoxin as well..sounds like the Albon has begun to work on the issue and clearing things up...as a rule of thumb here..any time I see watery poop..I give C D Antitoxin..it doens't hurt to have it even if they end up not needing it..but man it can save her life if she does need it..so just keep some handy.
Yep, checked her fecals again this morning and they are solid again; Better than last night. She is definitely chewing her cud. She was displaying that this morning when my wife milked her. 1/2cup a milk again this morning.

When we have some income in I'll definitely have the CD Antitoxin on the shelf as well as "Goat" Pepto and MoM. :thumbup:

As for treatment for puenomia..I would choose tylan 200 over la 200..its better imo for this kind of infection..1 c c per 25# every 12 hours...for five days..
I called the Farmers Exchange and they don't keep Tylan 200 in stock. They said the could have it in by Thursday but I don't feel comfortable with that. They do have LA 200 and a "generic" LA 200 in stock. Do you think the generic LA 200 would work in a pinch here? :confused:

If Judy had CAE or Johnes..Color is already exposed...pulling her off Judy's milk most likely wont make a difference now..but if you want to be on the safe side you can switch her to whole cows milk from the store..do the switch slowly so not to upset tummy..go 3/4 judy's milk 1/3 cows milk a few days then 50/50 then 1/3 Judys milk and 3/4 cows then 100% cows..
Well.... Judy isn't giving much anymore anyway and we were only feeding her Judy's milk once a day because we didn't have enough to do twice.

Again..testing is a great idea...do wait for about 90 days after Judys last treatment of any antibiotic or wormer..
I'd guess Judy is about 5-7 years old by her teeth. From what I read Judy is not displaying the symptoms but still, we'll need to test them both.

Thank you so much for your help (everybody). I'll keep you posted. Please let me know if I can use the LA200 generic and I'll rush out to buy it now.
 

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Tylan 200 is specifically for respiratory infection. LA200 is a general antibiotic. It can help. The Tylan would be better. But it is up to you on how bad the girls are and if you need to start right away or can wait. The generic of LA200 is fine if you choose that route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Tylan 200 is specifically for respiratory infection. LA200 is a general antibiotic. It can help. The Tylan would be better. But it is up to you on how bad the girls are and if you need to start right away or can wait. The generic of LA200 is fine if you choose that route.
I see. So it would probably be good to have both on hand. 1 for respiratory and 1 for general. I think, knowing that, I would like to give them the general "just in case". I don't know what else might be lingering under there...

What dose should I give of the LA 200?

Thank you all for your help! I'll keep you posted.
 

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La 200 is 1 cc per 20# : ) which is fine for Judy in a pinch...La 200 is not good to use on kids under 6 months..12 months is better It Interferes with bone & teeth formation both in
while kids are growing.
 

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Two OTC antibiotics to keep on hand are Tylan 200 and Penicillin : )
 

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Personally I like la 200 for respiratory. Yes you can use a generic I use duramcyin. It's cheaper :)

And yes I've used it in you kids. The only known side effect is possible yellowing of teeth and while that's annoying I rather an alive goat then a dead one!
 

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get them wormed good and get them some good medicine and feed and give them plenty of hay for the upset tummy it dries it up lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I gave them the LA200 about an hour and a half ago and just got back inside after doing a few things.

Boy they did NOT like that shot at all. Usually I give them B Injections and they have no problems with it at all. This time, giving them the injection it was very hard to press in and they seemed significantly uncomfortable. After I gave it to Judy she decided to "take a knee" for a moment. Color limped around for a while then did the same.

I sat with them both and watched them both chew their cud until they finally thought it was time to get up and act normal.

Upon trying to give them their B injection (in the other side), they started to run! Like "DO NOT WANT"... When I gave them the B injection though they didn't feel any pain or have any reaction like with the LA200. Color dozed in my arms for a moment then woke up and licked my chin. :hug:

Is it thick? Did I put it in the wrong spot? I gave 1cc to Color (20lbs) and 6cc to Judy (124lbs). I used a 20 gauge needle 1 inch deep. I injected in the "collarbone" at the base of the neck near the front right leg, IM. I pulled back a bit to check for blood but had strong resistance. The B shot I gave them this time was Sub-Q. Same needle type.

Should I use a different gauge? Is there another location I could give them the shot?

I rewarded them both with some goat pellet and calf-manna mix. I'll take temps in the morning.

get them wormed good and get them some good medicine and feed and give them plenty of hay for the upset tummy it dries it up lol
They don't really eat the hay.... don't know why. But they love the blackberries and maple trees in the field.
 

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Yes..very thick...Use an 18 g needle and give it Sub Q..IM is very painful..LA 200 burns ALOT...so they will react either way but Sub Q seems to get done faster....I give it in the loose skin where the neck meets the body then get them moving ASAP..walking it off seems to get it out faster...I now i hate giving them stinging meds..
 

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I pay the little bit extra for BioMycin. It doesn't have the sting to it. Just something to think about when you run out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Yes..very thick...Use an 18 g needle and give it Sub Q..IM is very painful..LA 200 burns ALOT...so they will react either way but Sub Q seems to get done faster....I give it in the loose skin where the neck meets the body then get them moving ASAP..walking it off seems to get it out faster...I now i hate giving them stinging meds..
Got it. So tomorrow I'll go the farmers exchange and pick up some 18g's and give Sub-Q. I just read the injections were supposed to be IM.

I don't think getting them to move will be a problem. They'll RUN. :eek:

Thank you for all the help. Will keep you guys posted. The eyelids are still very light pink but I guess it takes a long time for the color to come back? It's hard to believe it's only been 2 weeks. I'm exhausted.
 

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I do IM, no problems. It does sting, and I know first hand. ;)

Many people use the cheaper knock-off. I prefer the real deal. Little sting, but it works quite well for my herd and happy with results.
 

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The only meds that HAVE to be IM is hormones...all other can be Sub Q...How ever you feel more comfortable..To me IM just seems more painful to them
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
I took temps this morning:

Judy - 101.1
Color - 103.3

Judy has a limp this morning and doesn't really want to walk too much. It's in the same leg (I think) as I gave the shot in. Is it possible to still hurt her today? Her ankles don't look swollen or any swollen joints. Just kind of limps a bit and decides it's "time to lay down".

Judy gave about 1/2 cup of milk this morning.

I did not see any snot with Judy or Color and Color only had a little crust in her eye (about the same as what we have when we wake up).

Their Famacha score is still about a 4. How long does it take for them to pink back up?
 
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