Australian cashmere vs. cashgora

Discussion in 'Fuzzy Fibers' started by artsy_farmgirl, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. artsy_farmgirl

    artsy_farmgirl Goat Fancier

    39
    Feb 29, 2008
    Florida
    A few years ago I had been reading about crossing of cashmeres(Australian scrub goats) and angoras in Australia, and subsequent selective breeding for a finer fleece. If a cashgora attains a fine enough fleece, you can call it a cashmere, so I was wondering if the Australian cashmeres are basically refined cashgoras. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I would like to see how this would work if applied to pygoras, nigoras, and all the other angora crosses I see in the states. Seems to me, adding a low percentage of angora to a cashmere flock(such as using a half angora, half cashmere buck) may dramatically increase cashmere production, if consideration was taken to aim for as fine a fleece as possible.
    Also, the "goat wool" being produced already seems to sell well enough according to pygora breeders that even on a first crossing it may see increases in profits... Anyone else have thoughts on grading up American angora crosses to cashmeres?
     
  2. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Well if it helps. Cashmere is judged my the Micron count. It has to be between 19.5 and lower. I have a goat that is cashgora some years and Cashmere others. I know that sounds weird, but some years she has fiber that is tested and it a 16 micron and other years it is a 20 or more. It shows that the feed has a LOT to do with the micron tests.
    Now on that though, she has beautiful LONG fiber and she has a LOT of it. So when you bred the Cashmere goats to the Angora goats they will produce a longer fiber and most will give you a lot of it, but normally it is NOT the CASHMERE quality.

    Now her babies that we have bred and sold and so forth, they have never had the beautiful fiber that she has. Normally they say the more you breed down the line the less cashgora fiber you will have but she seems to have the best fiber of all them. Now again that is due to feed I believe.

    When I sell my girls (cashgora) fiber I NEVER mix it with the CASHMERE fiber. (unless it tests to be cashmere) Like i said it is not the same quality and when people but cashmere, it is not cheap and they want the true stuff. I do sell hers for less because not all people care that it is not cashmere and it is longer and cheaper. Does that make since? I know what I am trying to say but man is it i hard to put in witting.
     

  3. artsy_farmgirl

    artsy_farmgirl Goat Fancier

    39
    Feb 29, 2008
    Florida
    That made excellent sense to me. I had been thinking that cashgora or "goat wool", although not as valuable as cashmere, was worthwhile because of the niche market of handspinners as you mentioned that like long fiber, and that after a few generations it can probably be bred back to cashmere quality... I found that feed can play such a large role in the micron count very interesting, I had no idea it could vary so much... Thanks so much for your input. :)
     
  4. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    where would you get the microns counted?
     
  5. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    An Australian answer ...

    Australian Cashmere goats are NOT cashgoras.

    cashgora in Australia is NCV (No Commercial Value)

    There are established, seperate markets for cashmere and mohair in Australia.

    The few cashgoras around are only used in crossbreeding meat programs.

    Also, the scrub goat, feral or Australian Rangeland Goat to use the proper term is not a cashmere goat. Yes, you can get cashmere from many of them but true cashmere goats in Australia have been selectively bred to be superior fibre producers.
     
  6. artsy_farmgirl

    artsy_farmgirl Goat Fancier

    39
    Feb 29, 2008
    Florida
    I was not trying to say that Australia does not have a cashmere and mohair market, but I saw some information about how many Australian goats were being used for grading up into cashmere producers by crossing with angoras( http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goat ... /index.htm ). Any goat that can make cashmere is a cashmere goat, and not all offspring of cashmere producing goats have the same quality of fiber as their parents..every cashmere needs testing to confirm their quality.
    My question is a bit old now, but it seems now there is an entry on wikipedia pertaining to what I was asking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Cashmere_Goat
     
  7. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    I didnt mean to say that that was what you were saying ... oh boy, did that make sense?? lol

    I read the ansi article and I'm thinking this was the sentence which confused you. I think you may have read it wrong.

    This sentence is trying to say that the rangeland goat is used for various purposes:

    1. Breeding Cashmere goats - by simple selection or by breeding up with cashmere bucks
    2. Upgrading to Angoras by crossing with Angoras for mohair production
    3. Recips for ET programs - all breeds

    I can see where you got the impression, but it is not common practice to breed up to cashmeres by crossing rangleland with angora. Rangeland with cashmere, yes.
     
  8. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Cashmere goats are the only true goat that will produce a cashmere fiber. Yes the Cashgora is not worth much here in the states compared to the Cashmere. Here i would not say at all that it has NCV, because here it does, but I do know that Australian Cashmere is some of the nicest fiber along with Mongolia Fiber. I would just LOVE to have a doe that is from a true Australian Cashmere farm. (Keren, how about sending me a doe or two, ok throw in a buck also :dance: ).

    I do not quite know why but those two Countries have the nicest Cashmere goats in the world. :stars:
     
  9. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Well that could be arranged ... lol except that I dont breed cashmeres and have no breeders close by ... hmm.

    :greengrin:

    The thing I would like to see in the Australian cashmere industry is the frame size and fleece weight of the animals increase. Your cashmere animals are far more robust than ours - I think it is something to work on, however we know that low fibre diameter goes hand in hand with small size ...
     
  10. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    Keren, what is the average micron count of Mohair? From what I understand, Angora goats are single coated...so I don't know how you could expect to get more cashmere breeding to a breed that doesn't produce cashmere in the first place. Maybe they thought they'd reduce the micron of Angora goats, but I don't believe that was the result.
     
  11. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Di, kid mohair is classified as under 30 micron, I am aiming to get this for the first five shearings, at the moment I am achieving this for the first four. After that, I am aiming for no higher than 33. Most adults will go about 35 - 36. I have seen some bucks for sale up and over 40. I wouldnt touch them with a ten foot pole.

    No ... they didnt breed to Angora to get better cashmere goats.

    Rangeland goats were developed up into cashmeres by crossing with established cashmere bucks and simple selection.

    Ranglelands were also used to breed up to angoras, by crossing with Angora bucks.

    It is not common practice, and never has been, to crossbreed Rangelands to Angoras in order to produce cashmeres.
     
  12. ohiogoatgirl

    ohiogoatgirl New Member

    771
    Jan 31, 2010
    ohio
    newbie to fiber! question: if you had cashgora does that had cashmere umm... quality(?) wool and bred them to cashmeres down the line would the progeny produce cashmere wool but longer/more? just a thought... trying to use my dairy knowledge in fiber.