Bad News

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by StaceyRosado, May 3, 2008.

  1. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I had to pull Kitten. Sweet pea was biting and butting her. After she did it twice (that I saw) one after the other into the wall and only stopped because I pulled her back I took Kitten and brought her into the house.

    She has been exhibiting this behavior toward Kitten since last night but i was hoping it was just a fluke thing and she would get over it. Unfortunatly it is only getting worse.

    She stopped at her (like she was an intruder) and I am afraid she will trample her or butt her so hard she dies.

    So now I have to take her out every couple hours to eat from mom as she won't take the bottle.

    I am going to try to anyway but I a little more then upset over this. :cry:

    My mom is getting ready to leave on Monday I believe it is and she is freeking out about me having to take care of the goats and the garden etc :shrug: She wants me to rehome Presto ASAP :hair: which isn't going to happen I told her. She is only reacting this way because she is concerned for me BUT i can't help it I told her. I cant just let them die I have to do what I have to do even if it means no sleep I will do what needs to be done.
     
  2. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    I hate to hear this for you. Quads is hard on everyone and especially when one is tiny like kitten is. just remember this too shall pass and kitten will be big in no time and things will be easier. :hug:
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I just dispair easily --- especially on little sleep.

    Doesn't help that my grandmom is telling me all the things i am doing wrong :angry: Again only trying to help but it doesn't :tears:

    Ok so I am going to ask this: do you think I should try really hard to get her on the bottle OR will she be ok just going out to mom every couple hours (may have to wait upwards to 7-8 hours at a time :help: ) I am like the only one who Sweet Pea will let hold her so Kitten can nurse.
     
  4. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    Stacey if this were me I would put kitten and her brother in a small pen where they are in the barn and their dam can see them and every few hour I would hold her so kitten can eat. When you let her nurse let her get good and full and she should be able to go longer. Then you may be surprise in a few days she may take her and let her nurse with no problem. I did this for 4 days one year before the doe took the baby and nursed and loved it like no other after that. If after a few days of this then you can try the bottle again by letting her get really hungry.
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Same here Stacey! :hug:

    Everything will work out eventually, you'll see. If your mom is really having a problem with Presto in the house can you keep him with the other goats and just go out to bottle feed him? I know if I needed to bottle feed any of mine that is what I would have to do.

    I would try with the bottle but also let her drink off of mom when you can. When I had to teach Angie and Bambi how to drink from the bottle it took Angie forever! But you can do it! :hug: What kind of bottle are you using? It really helps if you rub their bum while you try to get them to suck on the bottle.
     
  6. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    From what I read, others may not agree with me, but I would pull at least Kitten completely from nursing and get her on the bottle. I would try and milk the other doe or even mom and give her as much goats milk as possible but then use the formula. If your mom does not want them in the house, put the bottle baby/babies in another stall and go out every couple hours to feed, but stop at 0 at night and next bottle at 5ish am... that is what I did, and it worked great. Then eventually is what I did for the bottle babies, it take tube socks, cut a slit in the toe area, nail them to the barn wall, and put their milk bottles for the daytime when I was gone in there, and my bottle babies are great. When I had to take them in town with me to work I found a "pet resort" that does boarding and daycare, and struck a deal with them to put the baby goat in a kennel in the back room, and that I would come to feed every 2-3 hours and they did not have to lift a finger.... they actually did not even charge me for it.

    I think Kitten will do better with the bottle if you pull her after last momma feeding and then in the morning the first couple bottles maybe a little rough, but when she gets hungry enough - trust me she will take it!
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    yes the plan is to have them outside here soon at least during the day.

    Kitten is now hungry again.........not to interested in teh bottle. Will probably try mom one more time tonight and even into tomorrow depending on her willingness to take the bottle in the morning.

    I want her to be a bit stronger before I do the whole "you are so hungry so eat this" sort of idea with the bottle.

    going to try the bottle before heading out to SP though.

    Wish me luck :pray:
     
  8. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Stacey, what type of nipple are you using? I never had to bottle feed so that they survive but I started introducing bottles when they were always sucking my fingers....no luck with human nipples though...the pritchard teats were what they went for....maybe because they "felt" more like mom. I do think putting them where Sw'P can see them would be beneficial and as Theresa said, it may take a few days for it to work and Sw'P will take them, or if not they still have each other as buddies and you can still bottle feed, and I like Allison's idea of putting the bottles in a sock for the extended periods you can't be home to feed them. I know how stressed you are, it's not the end of the world...you had the strength to save these babies before you saw them and the Lord will give you the strength to care for them. :grouphug:
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Ok tried the bottle but it was a no go (tried the pritchard before --- milk just seeps out of the threads :? - any idea on what type of bottle the nipples should be screwed on to? :shrug: )

    So I took her out to Sweet Pea and sweet pea didn't seem to care. I held her collar and Kitten nursed for a good solid 5 minutes (no breaks) then switched teats and nursed for another 2-3 minutes. So she now has such a full belly she doesn't want to move.

    Right now I don't have a separate stall for them to be in. And I don't trust the other pregnant hormonal grouchy goats - oh and Jasper either.

    So I have to keep them inside. They are going out in the garage tomorrow which will make mom very happy.

    Now that Kitten is back inside Presto can hopefully accept that he is a goat and not a house dog or whatever he thinks he is.
     
  10. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Regular pop bottles is all I've used. The seepage though could be from a "misplaced" bearing. Theres a little silver ball that sits under the rolled edge of the nipple inside the lid, pull the nipple from the bottom side and see if you can locate the ball, it should be seated in the hole, sometimes with cleaning I tend to pull too hard and the bearing goes cock-eyed. If that doesn't fix the problem, see if your dad has any Teflon Tape, used for leaky pipe threads, you can wrap a piece of this around the threads of the bottle you are using to make it snug. Another thing is , if you are using a regular coke/pepsi bottle, take the plastic ring off of it( it safety seals the cap), this will prevent you from "snugging" the nipple to the bottom of the threads.
     
  11. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I use the standard baby bottles and make the hole a little bit bigger.

    I am not sure how well this is going to be understood, but just like in humans, a baby that is on the teat is NOT going to want the bottle.

    Remember my little girl that was pretty bad off back in January, she was born on the 21st. She was almost dead when I found her and so I was looking at possibly bottle feeding. His mom would butt her away and not let her nurse. Her brother was going to be a bottle baby. I ended up pulling him, so within a few days mom took her back - but that was only because the other babies were gone.

    I have taken 2 babies from mom after 3 days, and the first day was a bit hard to get them to eat, but by the 2nd day they were eating a bit, by the 3rd day they were pros!!!
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I understand what you are saying Allison BUT with Kitten's size I dont' want to risk it. She is half the size of her siblings (and remember they are quads so not even normal size mini kids) and I want her to eat. I understand the whole timing thing to with switching to a bottle. But after all I have been through with her from minute one, she sees me as mom but wont' take the bottle. I force fed her milk via syringe because she wouldn't suck at all and then minutes later took her to her to her mom and she sucked like an old pro. I don't think switching her to the bottle is going to work.

    To me if I have to bottle feed it is the same as taking her to her mom to eat. The time and effort is the same.

    She is happier and maybe just maybe Sweet Pea will take her back :shrug: If not, this still works
     
  13. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    As long as you are able to continue doing this and she's getting her belly full, do what works for you and Kitten, it is possible that Sw'P will get used to the idea of 3 kids and not 2...also, Kitten is the only baby that looks different, maybe Sw' P knows that :shrug:
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    yes I think her coloring OR the fact that she did get Aspen's milk for a whole day caused this. But I dont know.

    I have my misgivings about my decision don't get me wrong. BUT I have to just press on with the decision I have made and not look back. My dad told me this on the first day as I was sitting here in tears over pulling Presto and he wouldn't take the bottle. (oh I do this every year i pull a kid........you would think I would get the idea by now :roll: )
     
  15. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Hey, you pulled these 2 for their livelihood!! It wasn't like you knew she'd have quads..my goodness, you are being pretty strong with all this going on...and those babies have made it to be 2 days old! I bet it will get better with each day....unless Flicka decides to kid while you are feeding Kitten....sorry I had to add that...I was certain that she was going to drop before Sw P!
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Thanks Liz. I really haven't been myself -- I got a goodnights sleep last night but I was still about to fall a sleep in church this morning :shocked:

    Everyone is doing great. Sweet pea lets me hold her (with minimal fight) and Kitten latches on right away. Presto takes his bottle with vigger and no one is looking like they are going to kid today so I will just take it easy :D

    This coming week is going to be tough as my mom and brothers leave on Monday and don't get back till late Thursday. So that means I am in charge of feeding the chickens and the dogs and watering the garden along with feeding my goats and making sure my dad has lunch :hair:
     
  17. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I know, sometimes it really sucks being a responsible adult, though I had alot of practice way long before I should have! Just remember though that what wears you down always ends up making you a stronger person. Chin up....once you get into a routine it all gets easier! :hug:
     
  18. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Babies of any kind are demanding. You'll need a vacation yourself when your Mom gets back.
    But I can see that you really needed to pull Kitten- she just could not have competed with such large siblings.
    I wish I knew a way of preventing quads or triplets even- too hard on the Mom's udder. I'm going to try keeping Tim reallly thin next time she get bred and see if she's less fertile.