Bad-tempered boys?

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by SarahR, Sep 6, 2014.

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  1. Chadwick

    Chadwick New Member

    Jan 23, 2014
    Volant PA
    Yeah, if you need it for a huge unruly animal that's fine......but use it with respect or you become the unruly animal.....
     
  2. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    Whoa!!! I totally missed the zapping of the 'boys' I would NEVER do that no matter how mad or how bad the animal was. Not only is that sick but I wonder how many times it would take till he gets harmed enough not to reproduce. I'm sorry but that part of my bucks is gold and should never be messed with like that.


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  3. SarahR

    SarahR New Member

    22
    Sep 6, 2014
    OK, I feel I should defend the girl a bit from what some people are saying. You might not consider it good practice but she has certainly never shown me any evidence of being sadistic or having a hatred for animals. And as for it not working - it does for them. You can't really tell me, the only one with any first-hand knowledge, otherwise.

    I do notice that the harshest critics are men and I guess that's fair, but at worst this is a young girl not knowing any better, not some kind of vendetta against males. I'm not sure what would even give you that impression!

    But in any case thanks for the feedback. :) I don't want my first thread to get too negative! I certainly never knew it could impair his breeding ability, I will definitely have to mention that to them. Is it more of a theoretical risk or does anybody know of it actually happening?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
  4. kccjer

    kccjer New Member

    Jan 27, 2012
    NW Kansas
    LOL yeah, men tend to get a bit paranoid over that kind of thing. hehehe It works only as long as they have the hotshot with them. I'm just saying that something that "works" will help fix the problem. Of course, it could be that is just the bucks temperament in which case, like I stated before, he would live on my farm. I got rid of a really nice kiko buck that was a total sweetheart with my daughter and I but was starting to get aggressive with my hubby. At this point, it will take one time for that family to not have the hotshot with them and decide to enter the bucks pen anyway and someone will be hurt.

    I can't give any absolute evidence, but if you think about it....enough electricity kills by burning. Continuous "shock therapy" of this kind will burn cells and eventually will kill cells. I'm guessing the buck probably has some scars on his sack from the shocks. Hotshots are made for using on tough hide....not tender areas (at least not often)
     
  5. Chadwick

    Chadwick New Member

    Jan 23, 2014
    Volant PA
    Sorry have been so negative, but there is a problem when you have an entire animal to choose from and you shock it in the privates.

    If she is very young than I would question why she was taught to shock it there....

    Yes this certainly does hit home with guys! Think of it the other way, if she was shocking a milk does udder.....
     
  6. lottsagoats

    lottsagoats Junior Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Middle Maine
    Or a does vulva.

    BTW...I am not a guy, I am a woman. And I work with behavioral health/mental health patients and was a former cop who investigated sex abuse/domestic assaults and animal neglect/cruelty, among other things.

    A normal kid would not even think to apply electricity to a male animals genitals. That is not normal. And for a parent to allow it is even worse. There is something skewed with that girls thinking.
     
  7. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I'm a girl and I cringed over it lol. I don't know if there is any proof that it would mess with the boy reproducing but I still would mess with that spot. As for going for that area someone might have told her that spot is sensitive not that she has some kind of mental issue. But those hot shots hurt....I've nailed myself before with them and she would get the same results going for any other area of the body. I'm not being negative or mean in anything I am saying I just disagree with what is going on


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  8. SarahR

    SarahR New Member

    22
    Sep 6, 2014
    Jessica84, Chadwick, I can totally see your points of view. I don't think this is a case of her being 'taught' to do it so much as her knowing that his testicles are sensitive and choosing to go ffor them when 'regular' use of the hot shot wasn't working.

    Lottsagoats, what can I say? I feel like that's a pretty extreme judgement from the oone fact you know about the girl, but you are entitled to your opinion.
     
  9. Chadwick

    Chadwick New Member

    Jan 23, 2014
    Volant PA
    Well if regular use was not working then that buck has a serious attitude issue!

    I also agree that that would not be welcome in my herd....
     
  10. Chadwick

    Chadwick New Member

    Jan 23, 2014
    Volant PA
    I do think freezer camp would be more humane that repeatedly shocking any animal, it's not a good life.

    I would not get less aggressive if you shocked me every time I saw you, in fact I would plot against you...... He might be getting worse from the treatment if they had to resort to testicle shocking.
     
  11. SarahR

    SarahR New Member

    22
    Sep 6, 2014
    I'm not sure how many times she tried the 'let him walk into it' method to be honest, just going by what her mother said.

    I have to agree with your second point, I wouldn't keep him around personally. I didn't want to say anything to my friend in case it came across as interfering with how she trains her animals, but maybe I should approach it from the 'why the hell do you KEEP this guy?' angle ;) I assume she knows she can just get rid of him! Lol
     
  12. kccjer

    kccjer New Member

    Jan 27, 2012
    NW Kansas
    That sounds like a good way to approach it. He may throw fantastic kids or some other reason, but there's too many good animals out there to deal with this kind of aggression. It's downright dangerous.
     
  13. Trickyroo

    Trickyroo New Member

    Sep 26, 2012
    New York
    Well , you did ask us if that was a correct way of using a hot shot ,
    and if we thought it would be effective. I can see defending a friend .
    But IMO , using the hot shot correctly is one thing , but using it on his testicles is cruel , inhumane and just plain wrong on many levels. This is MY opinion. Why not use the hot shot on another part of the body , why go right for the testicles ? What in the world is that going to teach this buck ? Not to think with his gonads ? What i think it will teach him is to be faster next time then the one with the hot shot , just saying.
    Sure it worked , it hurt him beyond what a woman would understand !
    If a dog constantly pees on your favorite flower bed , you don't go smacking his penis ,do you ? Defending the young lady is right , she was doing what her mother taught her , i totally get that , but the action itself is not right and i hope you see how wrong it is and not use that method in the future if need be.
     
  14. SarahR

    SarahR New Member

    22
    Sep 6, 2014
    That's fair enough, and I started this thread exactly because I was rather taken aback by her actions. The only thing I object to is anyone characterising my friends child as a psychopath because of this ONE incident.

    You should have read that a) she tried using the hot shot elsewhere first, his testicles weren't her first targets and b) her mother didn't teach her anything, in fact it was her own idea. From the way her mother winced I assume she is only borderline comfortable with it at best, but I can't speculate on what she has said to her daughter about it. I doubt any of that makes a difference to your opinion, but there you go. I still appreciate the input.
     
  15. Trickyroo

    Trickyroo New Member

    Sep 26, 2012
    New York
    I get it , i wanted to talk about this and not argue. I never want to argue. Sarah , I'm glad you see my point and i do yours. I wouldn't call anyone a sadist or psychopath . I agreed the action was.
    The young lady should be told that isn't right to do , explain why and I'm sure she will learn from it and do the right thing afterwards. Its a good thread and worth talking about , I'm glad you posted it. Others learn from it and when it comes down to it , we are all animal lovers and don't want to see any animal hurt . To make it right , the young lady learns from this and knows the correct way to use the hot shot.
    God forbid that buck does end up to be faster then she is and hurts her .
    Thats whats scary. And the buck was in the end protecting himself from another attack to his privates.
    Sarah , im glad your here and I'm also glad you brought the subject up.
    We can all learn and move on to learn about goat husbandry. We all want the best for our animals ;) Friends ?
     
  16. ariella42

    ariella42 New Member

    May 22, 2014
    Saluda, NC
    My husband watches enough fail compilations (guys epically failing while skateboarding, etc.) to see where a young girl could get the idea that getting hit in the testicles is painful for guys without understanding the full extent of it. Perhaps a little education is in order, though I don't know if you want to get involved that much. I did a little research about how electric shock could affect sperm count and came across this paper - http://www.himalayawellness.asia/uploads/himalaya/speman022.pdf

    If they want him as breeding stock, repeated shocking, particularly there, probably isn't a good idea. I also agree with the posters who said that might actually contribute to his aggressiveness. If they can't find any other way to control him, they really should get rid of him.
     
  17. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    I agree with what has been said. Temperament is literally half that animal and can be passed down to their offspring, I hope they know that. If the buck doesn't come around soon, I really urge them not to sell the buck to get him off their hands, they are only pushing the problem off onto someone else, which can get the new owners hurt as well.
    If he does not stop with the aggression, he really needs to be put down, for everyones safety.
    I was at an auction a long time ago, and they ran a big ram through and the auctioneer told everyone that he was an aggressive ram, and he should only be slaughtered because he will serious hurt someone. Some guy bought him, and guess what? The guy ran him back through the sale the very next week, only thing different? That ram attacked him and broke the mans leg.
    Had that ram been put down, his leg never would have been broken, nobody would have had to warn him, because the ram wouldn't be around to run through the sale, or hurt anyone else.
    Same goes for the umpteen times I have seen and heard of people that were hurt by aggressive studs, bulls, bucks, dogs, etc.

    Aggressive animals should never, ever be used for breeding. They don't use stallions that try to kill people do they? Of course not, it's incredibly dangerous, you always want your animals to have a mellow temperament and sound mind.
    Not people aggression, not skitzy, not animal aggressive, etc. The male animal, is half the herd. His offspring are half of him.

    Now, when say, a stallion is acting up and showing aggression towards someone, do we kick him, or hit him with a hot shot to the testicles? No
    When a police officer tasers a man that is trying to attack them, do they taser him in the testicles? No
    It's cruel and unusual punishment, and it is just doing much more harm to him, and reinforcing the aggression, than it is doing good and teaching him to stand down.

    Hopefully they rethink their actions and make the right decisions...

    Okay, off my soap box now.
     
  18. Trickyroo

    Trickyroo New Member

    Sep 26, 2012
    New York
    Dont taser me man :shock:
     
  19. SarahR

    SarahR New Member

    22
    Sep 6, 2014
    Of course! I didn't make this thread just to hear one opinion ;)

    Great stuff, I'll check out that link!

    Haha, funnily enough the taser manual disagrees with you :D

    "Use care when applying a drive-stun to the neck or groin. These areas are sensitive to mechanical injury (such as crushing to the trachea or testicles if applied forcefully). However, these areas have proven highly effective targets. These areas should only be targeted when citizens are defending themselves from violent attacks."

    I remember reading that a while ago and thinking it sucks to be a guy sometimes!
     
  20. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California

    Ok you had me totally bust a gut on that last statement lol
    But I know this isn't your buck and you have no way but dang that buck has got to have a serious mean streak, or they have caused it to get worse but either way. As I said I do use a hot shot. Not all the time and not over every little thing. Before I got my set up the way it is now I would go out every night with a bucket of grain to pour in their pans. Those goats would push on me stomp me catch me with their horns. That's why I first got the hot shot. I don't think any of my goats (bucks included) have been zapped more then once. They now see that hot shot and give me a very nice wide personal bubble. So for this buck to not only have been nailed but has also his manhood and he's still mean!!!
    Again I know this isn't your animal but not only is it dangerous for any humans but I agree with Chadwick he's not getting the point and it's not a overly great life to have.


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