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Badly injured doeling

5K views 96 replies 29 participants last post by  toth boer goats 
#1 ·
A week ago, one of our livestock guardian dogs attacked our smallest doeling. She was recovering well but was attacked again tonight. We will be putting the dog down after she whelps (she’s currently pregnant).

Do we have any shot of saving this doeling? The bite punctured through to her sinus cavities and through the bottom of her jaw, and I believe tore her tongue into pieces. We’ve been gently cleaning her and gave her Banamine. She was on penicillin g until yesterday after the first attack. If we have a shot of saving her, what should we do for meds at this point? She’s my teenager’s bottle baby and our only registered, polled, purebred goat. We are all just sick over this. Graphic photo below

Dog Carnivore Water dog Thigh Companion dog
 
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#13 ·
That’s a good idea. I really can’t bring her in. Not with two pet dogs she would definitely attack and two kids and my elderly parents. Also I brought the baby goat inside for the night. I’m terrified for my other goats but they seem to give her a wider berth than this one ever did.
 
#15 ·
Or get a large kennel for her. You’ll need a o have the puppies somewhere for awhile as well.
What breed of LGD is she?
Is she more upset about goats getting too close to her since she’s closer to whelping?
Was she also pregnant when she attacked this same goat previously?
I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this. Poor little goat 😢
 
#16 ·
She’s a Maremma, full blooded. The sire for her pups is half maremma and half great Pyr. He’s younger than her and overly playful still but not aggressive. The female attacked a doe for her placenta last March, but she resource guards food so we put it down to that. One of them bit a doeling last May but we couldn’t figure out which one and she recovered. Now this. Yes she’s more aggressive while pregnant, but I’ll never trust her again. it also doesn’t help that the baby goat tried to nurse off the pregnant dog. That was… never going to end well.

I have an extremely maternal German shepherd (indoor pet) who would definitely nurture the pups after they’re born (she’s currently crying outside the door where we are keeping the injured baby goat for the moment. She desperately wants to clean and care for it).
 
#17 ·
I'm so sorry to hear that! If it punctured her sinus cavity, as yiu seem to think, bacteria can very easily infect the brain and cause her to pass painfully. IF you are trying to save her, you need to take her to a vet ASAP just to see the full extent of the damages and be fully informed before making that decision.

Definitely remove the dog somehow, especially since she's nearing whelping and will most likely get more and more aggressive. Is there an emergency vet you can call just for advice tonight?
 
#19 ·
The goat is asleep with no fever, but we are going to give her a very large dose of painkiller if she’s worse when she wakes up. I’m relatively convinced she will just pass in her sleep. She’s already had a maximum dose of Banamine.

I have an unused garage we are converting to a large, better barn that I can put the dog in. Assuming the barn cats are smart enough to stay away that should work until she whelps.
 
#18 ·
I am so very sorry you are going threw this.
As someone who has bottle fed just about everything there is from kittens to a fawn, puppies were not as easy as I thought it would be. If there is a way to keep the dog away from the goats and feed the puppies until weaning j would seriously consider it. Again I’m so sorry about all of this please give your daughter a extra hug for me
 
#25 ·
The baby is in bad shape, the areas need shaved and cleaned to really see the damage done.
She will need a vet ASAP if you want to try to save her. But being attacked worse the second time, may of done her in. 😢

To bad you allowed the dog to attack again.

That dog to me, doesn’t have livestock protection instinct’s. I don’t care if she is pregnant or not, the thing is, she doesn’t have babies in the ground yet.
Which tells me a lot.

The dog attacked once, it will do it again to any goat or pet or child.

A good LGD has good bred in instincts to protect the herd, not hurt any.

As a pup or young dog, they must learn and be corrected immediately and constantly monitored.
If you can’t monitor them, do not have them with the goats until you can.

With a good LGD, they help teach the pups. But when you have bad lines or those who were not imprinted to protect livestock, that dog or pups should not be around livestock.

Remove the dog by any means possible or you will lose another goat.

I am sorry about the rant but I am
so saddened to hear things happen like this, which could of been avoided. 😢
 
#26 ·
This will probably not be a popular opinion, but if the dog is that dangerous and a repeat offender, do you even want to wait until after she whelps? I would never want a puppy from a parent that attacked stock, even if the pups weren't raised by their dam. Temperament is absolutely heritable. Just putting that out there. I'm so sorry about your poor baby goat. None of us can accurately see from the photo the extent of her injuries and I feel it's not a call we can advise you to make. A vet needs to see her in person, this isn't a call for us to make based on one photo.
 
#29 ·
I agree that you should not keep the dog loose with the goats.
Can you tether her in with them or anywhere else?

I suggest a chain and a hammer in spike type end with a swivel.....if she must be with the goats this gives them the ability to get away from her

Do you have any idea why the dog is attacking her goats???
 
#33 ·
Oh gosh I didn’t get notifications on this. So sorry to leave you all hanging!

Mocha is still with us. I spoke with a vet at the OSU Vet Teaching Hospital and went over everything we were doing/able to do. They think she has a chance. She’s on Banamine for pain/swelling and Penicillin G. She is taking a bottle of formula with a great deal of time and effort. She’s also interested in the calf manna we offered her, though eating is clearly difficult. She is drinking water, urinating, and pooping. She’s also safe and warm inside the house, confined to the laundry room.

The LGD is one we bought last spring. She’s a three year old Maremma and spent her whole life around goats. The previous owners told me she had never bitten an animal in her charge before. I think they lied. I think they lied about a lot of things, actually. I don’t think she was trained at all, and I know they intentionally taught her bad habits (found that out the first time she stood on her hind legs and put her front paws on my shoulders. She’s massive. About 120 lbs. Breaking her of that habit took some work).

That damned dog cost me a thousand dollars up front and a whole lot of problems. We have bears and coyotes and bobcats and cougars on our property. Neighbors have lost whole herds to predators. It’s why we got the dog. Of course then the dog became a predator too. Luckily her mate doesn’t seem to have the same violent streak. He’s still young and has been raised here by us with the goats since he was eight weeks old.

I get the wisdom in putting her down before she whelps. I don’t think I can. And I think her problems come down to poor training, which will not be the case for any pups. I do get that I could be wrong and that it is a risk.

We are scrambling to set up another fenced area to ensure everyone is separated. Mocha will be inside for the foreseeable future and I’ll bring up another doeling to keep her company in the next day or two assuming she continues to improve.

Thank you all for your concern for her!
 
#34 ·
Oh, what a relief hear she's still with us, and seems to be improving!!!!!!! That's just so amazing to hear, to my ears who've had bad news today. Such a joy. I pray she continues to do good and improve.

What about her tongue, is it torn like you thought? Or have you looked? Also, maybe soaking her food might be better than leaving it hard. Also, definitely do daily probiotics for at least a week or two.


I completely understand about the dog, not wanting to put her down before hand. But, you should probably just sell the pups as pets and not LDGs. That way you just avoid everything all together, and they can go as loving pets.
 
#39 ·
Oh, what a relief hear she's still with us, and seems to be improving!!!!!!! That's just so amazing to hear, to my ears who've had bad news today. Such a joy. I pray she continues to do good and improve.

What about her tongue, is it torn like you thought? Or have you looked? Also, maybe soaking her food might be better than leaving it hard. Also, definitely do daily probiotics for at least a week or two.


I completely understand about the dog, not wanting to put her down before hand. But, you should probably just sell the pups as pets and not LDGs. That way you just avoid everything all together, and they can go as loving pets.
I’m not sure about her tongue. That whole part of her face is just a mess and everything is swollen and… gooey, for lack of a better word. We’ve been giving probiotics and she actually (accidentally) soaked some of that calf manna herself! She spilled it and water on the floor together.

I think Lyssa (the dog) would have been fine patrolling a large piece of acreage without small/medium sized livestock. I’ll aim for homes like that for the puppies. She’s done well at respecting a Hotwire and staying on the half acre pasture she’s meant to be on, though I know for a fact she can clear the fence no problem. And she loves people, though of course I do not trust her at all. My kids, even though they are 12 and 14, are no longer allowed near her, and my neighbors have been warned about her behavior (even though they’re all at least a half mile away. I didn’t want to take chances there. Especially since one was young kids).

I still question if we did the right thing by trying to keep little Mocha going. It’s very borderline in my opinion. If the vet hadn’t been so encouraging, I wouldn’t have. Time will tell, I guess, if that was the right call.
 
#37 ·
Dang I just caught up on this thread. I would have a hard time putting the puppies down with the dog too. I think it is wise to sell the pups as pets. Habits, whether trained or not, can and will be going to the pups. Also the dog will attack people if given the chance. So be careful around it.
I hope the doeling continues to improve.
 
#38 ·
Sounds like you have a good plan for the baby goat. I would however switch her to whole cows milk over replacer as it's easier on tummies and less likely to cause issue. If shes not able to get enough, tube feeding maybe an option until her tongue heals more. Also be sure not to over feed. 10% of her weight in oz is a good start amount. A pinch of baking soda in first bottle and a dose of probiotics in her last will jeep her tummy happy. To figure her amount. Take her weight and multiply by 16 to get weight in oz then multiply that by 10% to see how much per day is needed..divide into 3 to 4 feeds or more. Also, If it hasn't been done yet..I would definitely give baby a tetanus antitoxin shot. Deep puncture wounds, especially from dog bites can be breeding ground for tetanus. Give a full 5 ml vial sub Q.
I respect your decision about the pups. Its sad the previous owner was not truthful. Things could have been alot worse. You definitely don't want her raising her pups as she will teach them bad habits. I would allow her to feed them her colostrum then get them on a bottle if mom needs to be euthanized. Do be super careful when she has her pups as she may be aggressive toward anyone getting near them. A plan in advance would be wise. I'm very sorry this happened.

Best wishes
 
#40 ·
Thank you. We’ve tried both whole cow milk and two types of formula for Mocha, and she really strongly prefers the Dow’s Match formula over cow’s milk. It hasn’t given her stomach problems yet, and it’s what she insisted on when she was a bottle baby. Right now, I figure however I can get fluid and calories in her, I’ll go with it. Obviously if she has a problem I’ll switch. She had the CDT vaccine recently, but I haven’t been able to find the antitoxin. I’m told the supply is low nationally. I’ve asked around any none of my neighbors have any either.

Thats exactly my thought on the puppies. Colostrum is a must but I don’t want her teaching them… anything at all, really. I’m expecting to be bottle feeding. I don’t think she will be aggressive toward her own puppies, but it’s certainly possible. And even though she likes humans, I am not going to risk myself or my husband trying to get close until it’s time to put her down. I really really hope she whelps soon because I hate having this hanging over our heads.
 
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