Billy Jean Kidding Thread ~ She Kidded ~ Photos added!

Discussion in 'Waiting Room' started by Maria, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    My LaMancha (Billy jean) is pregnant, but I am not sure of her due date. Or rather I am fairly certain she's pregnant (if anyone has read my kidding problem thread, let's just say I don't really know what to think right now lol), I see something moving in her, she was as huge as a house, and now something has settled to cause her backbone to look hollow. This happened about a day ago. Before this, she was huge and fluffy all over, and looked extremely obese.

    I would have taken a photo of her udder, but she has none. Barely a handful of udder under the two teats. This Doe is so furry, it's hard to get a good photo of the teats, she has a nice warm winter coat on her right now.

    Her ligaments are loose, but not completely gone. Her tail raises, then goes down halfway, sometimes all the way. She is pawing the ground, and has an area in the greenhouse where she has made a "bed" that she lies in a lot now.

    I have 2 other does that have already delivered kids, with no kids surviving. Since she ran with the Bucks the same time as the other Does, I assume she will be due soon, or she could be due in another month, I have no way to be certain. I'm just checking her every hour, and watching for mucus, udder development or for the ligs to go completely.

    I'm not sure how to tell anything by looking at the pooch, but since others posted photos of it in their threads, I figured it wouldn't hurt to post one here either.

    I have learned some valuable lessons about running does with bucks, and as soon as Billy Jean kids, all my does will be seperated from the bucks, they already have a separate pen ready and waiting. I won't be breeding the other two does again, and am hoping that Billy Jean has no difficulties, so that maybe she can be bred again in 2012.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    I am no expert, but Billie Jean sure looks like a Boer goat to me. If she is a cross with a boer and takes after the Boer side more, she might not have much of an udder. Also, sometimes I understand their udders (goat udders, not particularly Boer udders) don't fill until the last minute. It sounds like she is pretty close, from her behavior, and that the kids have dropped. Pictures are always good.

    I am really pulling for her to have no problems. Hugs and good thoughts going your way.

    Jan
     

  3. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    What a sweet looking girl you have there.

    She looks like she has really sunk in. I would say babies pretty soon. How soon you ask? I have no idea, but as sunk in as she is I would GUESS days.
     
  4. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Thank you Jan, I hope she's not a Boer, I have a Boer buck and he has ears. She doesn't have ears. The lady I purchased her from said she is LaMancha, and showed me her moms udders, they were HUGE.

    But I'm also learning that one could tell me anything and I don't know what I am doing, or what I have purchased, she could be Boer for all I know. I have already figured out that lady is probably not very "honest" to buyers who haven't a clue.

    But the only goat I have "papers" on, is my Boer Billy "Cowboy", I know he's 100% Boer and the lady I purchased him from I trust 100% to be honest. The others don't have papers, I wasn't too concerned about buying for shows, mainly for the joy they bring, the milk, and to have something the children can show for 4H. If they like showing for 4H then when they are older, I may invest in some quality show goats.

    I'm fairly certain she will have no problems, she's already made a bed and is staying stressfree and comfortably warm. I'm just right now just checking on her throughout the day, and leaving Snow White in the greenhouse with her to ensure she remains stress free. She has seperation issues, can not stand to be alone, I know once the kid is born then I may need to remove Snow White, but right now, I am trying to stay with the "keep it calm, quiet, peaceful, relaxed" attitude.

    She's comfy, she beds in the back, Snow White beds in the front, their fresh hay is in the middle, they seem to have it worked out where they know they are not alone, yet they both want their "private" spaces.

    I don't much care if she is a Boer at this point now, I just want my does to stay healthy and happy, and am keeping my fingers crossed that I will get at least one more doe from her kidding, but will be happy with anything so long as it's healthy, and stays healthy.

    Sweetgoats, I was thinking it's getting closer myself, but Blue Eyes, my first Doe that kidded, had that sunken look for a good week before she lost her plug. I don't think she'll have it today, but Snow White, she kind of popped a kid out over night, last Saturday she had no back arch, no hollow, ligaments tight, no udder, NONE of the signs, so I left her in the pen to play. She had her kid the next Sunday, that's when things started going downhill for her :(

    Since I don't know for sure, I'm just focusing on keeping them both happy and toasty, so if I miss the kidding, at least the kid will be warm and not die from the cold.

    Some say bad things come in threes, well if that's the case, I have had my three, (one with Blue Eyes, 2 with Snow White) so it's time for something GOOD to happen! My daughter says she had a dream that Billy Jean had 3 kids, with no problems, they just popped out one right after the other.

    I'll be happy with one, but if the goods also come in threes too, YIPEE there will be enough kids for all my children and does to spoil rotten!

    I don't think she will have 3, but she was so huge before she hallowed, there could be at least 2 in there.
     
  5. Hush Hills Fainters

    Hush Hills Fainters New Member

    123
    Oct 27, 2010
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Maria-I hope everything goes well with Biily Jean...she is cute...from this picture you posted her ears look longer then they really are but from the other one you posted you can see that she has tiny tiny ears :) I would say she is a boar/LaMancha cross. I am so happy Snow White is doing better...you had me on pins and needles...Just think with all you have gone through how many of us you can help with your with your first-hand experiance.

    Our prayers are with you and fingers are crossed...happy healthy kids.
     
  6. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Shes probably a LaBoer. :) They are good moms most of the time.
     
  7. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    A LaBoer :slapfloor: Ok now I really do feel like a fool, that's what I get for being so trusting when buying my goats lol.

    Actually, if she is part Boer, then this means she's also "hardier" correct? that gets me excited, it means she will most likely NOT have problems, and then she'll be the perfect Doe to breed with Cowboy in the future.

    I wanted her for the udders her mama had, but at this point, milk isn't my biggest concern, I just want her to kid with no problems. My right hand is all cracked up and dry right now, it's about had all it can take :ROFL:
     
  8. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    I agree she definitely looks like boer. Maybe the breeder doesn't know their goats? Crazy people....
    She sure is a beautiful girl though, and sounds like she's getting close :)
    Many thoughts and prayers going out that she has an easy kidding experience :)
     
  9. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Yes, I agree most boers can be hardy. But a lot are not. My own experiences anyways.
    :)
     
  10. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Yep...she looks like "LaBoer" to me! She has the thickness and traditional coloring of a Boer...but no ears! Very pretty girl too!

    It's hard to say exactly when she will go, but you being the awesome goat mom that you are, she's not going to have chance to be sneaky about it!

    I hope she has the udder her dam has, have you checked her teats? Some Boers are known for having more than 2 teats...if she's "clean teated" meaning only 2, then you should have no problems with milking her. If you can feel an udder through the fur, then she's working on building it for her kids.
     
  11. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Thank you everyone, well, then I am 99.9% certain she will have NO problems delivering this kid. I know more about Boers than I do any other, for the simple fact the lady up the road raises 100% boers, and is very liberal with her information. I may not can tell the difference between the cross-breds, but I have heard great stories about her goats and how hardy they are. If Billy Jean is Lamancha and Boer, then that's also wonderful, my worries about the LaMancha small frame may be for naught. She's the one I thought would have the most difficult birth because she was so small when I purchased her.

    I went back out to study her and Snow White a bit more, and stood them side to side. I was amazed to see that Billy Jean has a much better spread in back, she's a clear 3 inches wider than Snow White, and Snow White is my "tallest" doe. 3 inches may not seem to be much to most, but for me, that's ALOT more room to navigate a kid through compared to Snow Whites spread! I didn't examine her cervix, just stood them side by side so I could see the width between the back legs. Billy Jeans spread literally shocked me, and here I was worried about HER having a problem delivery cause she's short. Her body frame is WAY more impressive than Snow Whites!

    I always thought she was the smallest because she is the shortest, but after comparing the two, Billy Jean may have short legs, but her body is very hefty and sturdy.

    I have read up on LaManchas, and figured they are a delicate nature.

    Her mothers udder dragged on the ground, the "lady" told me she sometimes produced 2 gallons a day (of course I don't know what to believe based on what she said any longer). If Billy Jeans udder grows to even just half the size of her mothers, I will still be a very happy camper. I already knew they may not be as big since I didn't have a full blooded LaMancha to breed her with, but Snow White produced a good cup of colostrum with her first milking, if she could produce that much in colostrum alone, then Billy Jean should do the same or even better.

    Liz, she does have only 2 teats, and although her udder isn't big yet, it's increasing. I can fill about a handful of "udder" above her teats, whereas before the area there was just a flat surface with two teats hanging from the skin. She's making an udder, but it's not big yet.

    I read some posts about shaving this area, I do have a dog clipper I use on my dog, but I have no idea how to shave a goat. I didn't worry too much about shaving Snow White and Blue Eyes, their fur isn't as thick or soft as Billy Jeans. But I do forsee a problem with milking with all the fur Billy Jean has under her. She's got a full, fluffy, warm coat. Makes me feel like I am beside a cloud when she's sitting beside me.

    As for her being sneaky about it, I think this time I will be sneaky lol. When she starts pushing more, or when I see some discharge, I plan to put my daughers phone in the greenhouse, on speakerphone, and call my phone, and just listen from the warmth of the house. No more sitting in the greenhouse, I will just listen, and make sure I can hear if she gives any calls of distress lol.

    Hopefully all I will hear is new bleats from a happy, healthy kid.

    I am having fun now that Snow Whites danger is over. I am finding it fasinating to watch Billy Jean, and find it fascinating that once I took the time to study the two, to see that Billy Jean is one hefty girl.

    It almost makes me ashamed that I even bred Snow White, SHE now seems delicate when compared to Billy Jean! She has tall lanky legs, but her frame is so small in comparison.

    A LaBoer, well that beats all, now I need to figure out who to breed her kid to if she has a doe. Billy is SUPPPOSED to be Nubian/Kiko, but now I don't know for sure what he is either :ROFL: . The only one I know for certain is Cowboy is 100% Boer, but if I breed him to the doe next year, if she has a doe, that means more meat than milk will be in the next kid.

    Our plans are all shot now, we were going to breed Billy and Blue Eyes, until we got a black and white (from Billy) blue eyed (from Blue Eyes) kid doe for 4H, then try to breed that doe to Cowboy to hopefully one day get a solid white, blue eyed doe for 4H and maybe other shows.

    I didn't even know if that would be possible, but this is what the kids wanted to try.
     
  12. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Maria...when you have chance to, take a look at some Boer breeders sites...and then check out some of the Standard Dairy breeders sites, you will see that Snow White is more of a dairy doe, she's supposed to have a "dainty" refined look, where as Billie Jean being half Boer will be much wider and stout due to the meat breed character.
    It's great to be able to relax and enjoy an impending delivery and I'm happy that you are in that state now, also..... a baby moniter works GREAT for listening in on goaties. I picked one up from a thrift store for 5 bucks a few years ago and it still works great..my barn isn't far from the house and even at 200 feet and going through 3 walls the reception is awesome.
     
  13. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Thank you again Liz, I did a google images search of Lamancha / Boer to see images of other crosses, and now I see the similarities.

    And yes, Snow White is "daintier", I just never thought to look at the frame, I always viewed my goats as taller is bigger.

    I've been reading here in the forum like crazy, and after reading so many different experiences, I am beginning to think MAYBE Blue Eyes can be bred again IF I make sure she is bred to Billy. Billy is the runt, so maybe her delicate frame may need a smaller daddy. Maybe her problems were from her being bred by Cowboy. She's been in the pen, back to her normal self for sometime now. Just a bit of discharge still, not bloody, from what I have read, this is typical for a few weeks after birthing.

    I plan to go outside after the rain stops and study her frame and Billys frame. since she didn't rip her uterus, maybe she can be bred again next year. I don't know how long one should wait before breeding again after kidding, but I think a good year should give her enough time to get over her trauma?

    I know Snow White will not be chanced to go through this again, she's now going to be our main mower. All she has to do for the rest of her days, is eat shurbbery and enjoy a hopefully stressfree life.

    Billy Jean is absolutely tickling me right now, before her belly dropped, I thought for sure she had triplets in there, she was so HUGE. Now that it has dropped and I can see her frame better, I am certain that the kid is going to come out with no problem whatsoever! It has way much more pelvic room than the other kids had!

    She's still pretty big, but I won't go so far as to hope for twin does. A healthy kid will make me happy, twin does estatic, but I am not getting my hopes up too much.

    I'll go look at breeder sites now, this has me fascinated. And it's given me a lot more hope, it looks like my luck is about to change for the better! Even if I don't get enough milk for the kids and soap, I'll just be happy to have a helthy kid for the children. And I'll make plans to find some goats from a more reliable source before spring kidding.

    I tried looking for goat farms in GA, here in the forums, but have had no luck finding any. If I can't find any near me, I'll have to see about getting a camper shell on my truck, so I can go across state lines, I can go to Florida, Tennessee or Alabama if needed.
     
  14. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    I went to do the last check for Billy Jean for the night, and to give Snow White her last shot, and Billy Jean seems to be loosing her plug, not entirely, but she had the tiniest bit of mucus on her vulva. It wasn't stringy and hanging way down like it did with Blue Eyes. Her ligaments are still loose, but can still be felt, so it's not exactly quite ready for her to kid just yet.

    There's no difference in udder size, and no hard contractions so I plan to check her once more before bedtime, if there's more mucus, I will stay up longer just to monitor her, if not, I will check her again in the morning.

    I don't think she'll have it tonight since I can still feel the ligaments, and since the mucus wasn't enough to get excited about. It was a small change, but from what I understand at fias farm website, this can happen a week or even a month before due, that the time to see it as "kidding soon" is when it's a long string of mucus, such as the type Blue Eyes had.
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    hoping Billy Jean does well for you -- sounds like she still has some time left to go but hope she doesnt drag you along for much longer
     
  16. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Newest Update: Not much change with Billy jean, very little discharge, but her udder is now a good handful and not just a handful. Ligs still there, not tight, but still there.

    Snow White on the other hand, has become a HANDFUL. She is getting spoilt from the hourly checks lol. She'll sometimes bleat when I close the door after I check Billy Jean, or even when I just peek in, see all is well, and leave. She won't stop until I come back in and check her tail too, or pet her, or simply say "Hey Snow White, glad to see you up and about", then she'll start back chewing her cud or whatever she's doing. I think she's jealous that she's not getting all the attention anymore lol :ROFL: .
     
  17. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    So, o glad Snow White is doing so well! Can't wait to see what Billy Jean gives you!
     
  18. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Sounds like you are gonna have a "pocket goat" on your hands, Snow White is definately one lucky girl!

    Glad to hear that Billie Jean is doing well...you'll know when she's ready.
     
  19. Maria

    Maria New Member

    81
    Jan 11, 2011
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    Latest Update: Billy Jean is getting closer to delivering. It may still be a few more days, I'm not sure. She's very restless, she keeps walking around in circles, licking her sides, lying down, then getting up to walk again.

    Her tail was rising and then going back down, but today it's staying halfway up to all the way up, continously. She also has a "wild" look in her eye, not a calm as she is chewing her cud look, but more of a "what's happening" look.

    Still very little discharge, and no additional udder growth. I can still feel her ligs, but they are so far gone that it's very hard to find them now.
     
  20. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread

    How is Billy Jean doing Maria? And of course IF she did drop baby's over the weekend we'd LOVE to hear about it. :hug: