bizarre encounter with a buyer-discussion on polled breeding

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by TexasRanger, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. TexasRanger

    TexasRanger New Member

    589
    Feb 2, 2010
    San Antonio, TX
    I had a possible buyer come out today to look at little Alexi. The guy checked conformation, eyes, ears, teeth, teats, and balls. When he asks when I de-horned him, and I reply that he is polled, the guy backs up and gets a look on his face. He then proceeds to tell me that he is not sure that he wants him since he is worried that Alexi is sterile since he is polled. :scratch: I am like "What the heck!?" The guy then proceeds to ponder and count on his fingers, etc. He then tells me he has to do some "research" and might be back in a week to look at him. He is worried that if he breeds Alexi to his does, then he will have sterile or hermaphrodite offspring. Sirens should have gone off in my head when he asked over the phone if Alexi has four teats, since according to him "Nubian and Pygmy mixes sometimes have weird babies" :doh: . I thought polled X polled might equal hermaphrodite? Has anyone had an experience like this? I've decided to put Alexi back up for sale, since I don't trust this guy. If anyone is interested I have his sister Sasha and a psychotic red Boer doe for sale.
     
  2. K-Ro

    K-Ro New Member

    371
    Oct 13, 2007
    Texas
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Supposedly, polled goats have a higher incidence rate of hermophradites or sterility. A lot of articles state that you should only breed a polled goat to a horned goat, etc.

    But then again, some want the polled gene in there herd too.

    There really doesn't seem to be to much difference, percentage wise, when you get a hermophrodite - whether it came from polled or non-polled.

    There are a some good articles on it if you do a search.
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Polled goats arent sterile -- some say that polled to polled with cause sterile or hermaphrodites goats but Liz has a doe Binkey and she is a polled doe who has kidded 3 times and pregnant for a 4th -- she is a result of a polled to polled breeding.

    And the only hermaphrodites I have seen or heard of were actually horned goats. So I dont know how much truth there is to the polled to polled breeding claims about hermaphrodites
     
  4. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Thanks Stacey, yes Binkey is the result of both parents being polled and her twin sister is polled too and has also kidded 3 times. Ironically, Binkey was bred to 3 different HORNED bucks for her first 3 freshenings and has never had a polled kid. This time around, we'll see how these kids turn out because I "linebred" her with Chief.....who I suspect is polled and mistakenly disbudded because he's thrown 5 polled kids to horned does.
     
  5. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I don't believe it at all. I have seen A LOT of polled goats with normal offspring. If this was the case, no one would even be breeding or showing polled goats...what would be the point? I have a polled buck and ALL his offspring have been healthy and fertile. I don't believe that breeding polled to polled does anything either.

    There are polled cattle and if you can find an entire herd of polled quality herefords then you are in luck because you won't have to disbud calves. It hasn't been known for producing sterile offspring.

    I would tell the guy good luck with his goats, but he's not the right fit for this buckling. I can see him in the future thinking he's sterile or something's wrong with his offspring and dumping your poor guy at an auction or something.
     
  6. TexasRanger

    TexasRanger New Member

    589
    Feb 2, 2010
    San Antonio, TX
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I doubt he's coming back. He lives on the other side of the lake, and there are plenty of of horned goats on Craigslist.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I agree with the others.... :thumb:

    Maybe it is a blessing... that he don't come back...he isn't very knowledgeable....about goats....things happen for a reason... :wink: :hug:
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

    461
    Dec 20, 2008
    Vernonia, Oregon
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    We had a hermaphadite from a polled buck last year. It was the third breeding from the buck, bred to a horned goat...I sold my polled buck because of it...It kindof freaked me out!!
     
  9. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I do not want to ruffle any feathers here but I do see where he is concerned. After all if he hears only that polled goats are Sterile, then that is what he is going on. The best thing you could do is either be happy he is not taking this guy, OR educate him. Have him come here, talk to him and explain that you understand his concern and we all have heard this before, and help him. After all if he is that aware and detailed about checking this guy over, he might be a darn good goat owner and you can't fault him for being concerned.
     
  10. TexasRanger

    TexasRanger New Member

    589
    Feb 2, 2010
    San Antonio, TX
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I tried to educate him, but he would hear none of it. I asked him if he wanted to look it up in my goat books, on the internet, etc. But he said he had to go home and "research" it. :whatgoat:
     
  11. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Maybe he just didn't want to pay the price you had on him?? We've had people real shady like that say. "Ok Ill buy your goat" and never come get them. So infuriating!

    I can sorta understand him being worried, but Im not! I dont have any polled goats so Im not worried. When and if I get one, then Ill take the time. :p
     
  12. Dreamchaser

    Dreamchaser New Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Camp Verde, AZ
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Please don't throw goat berries at me, but I would kindof agree with him. I'm concerned about hermaprodites also coming from polled stock. But I think that is only if you breed 2 polled goats.
     
  13. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Almost my entire breeding program is based on polled to polled breedings.... my goats are as fertile as it gets... now if you can please get my 5 and 6 week old bucklings to quit breeding my adult does.... I will be happy!!!!!!! LOL Oh and for those concerned about polled/polled breeding please research the appenhell (sp??) it is an entirely polled breed of goat. The hermie gene is based on 2 different things one being "free Martin" based and the other simply being from genetics.... sometimes you get a bad pairing. More hermies have been produced from horned/horned breedings than polled/polled breedings and polled/horned breedings would be the most unlikely to produce hermies. :)
    As far as this person not wanting to buy the buck.... he just hasn't researched enough... list him on the polledgenetics group on yahoo.... you'll sell him quick to someone who appreciates the gene. :) Nothing better than polled goats in my opinion.... I LOVE THEM!!!!! No disbudding!!!
     
  14. Dreamchaser

    Dreamchaser New Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Camp Verde, AZ
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Really Jess? That is awesome. I am just going off what I have read in the books. *shrugs*
     
  15. dvfreelancer

    dvfreelancer New Member

    192
    Aug 15, 2009
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    What a surreal discussion. It's like saying you could practice birth control by trimming your fingernails. Unless you're polling goats by starting at the back and going up through the inside (not recommended by the manufacturer), there's no way that could have any effect on their reproductive capability.

    Unless from polling they got some bizarre infection that only effected their reproductive system, male and female alike. That's so far off the reality reservation it borders on witchcraft. Might as well suggest it had something to do with the phases of the moon.
     
  16. kids-n-peeps

    kids-n-peeps New Member

    477
    Aug 24, 2009
    Virginia
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Just a quick google search on this topic brings up results like this:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=30IHvL ... ts&f=false
    so if this is what the buyer has been reading, it's really not so bizarre for him to be concerned. It is good that you tried to educate him, though :)
     
  17. WarPony

    WarPony New Member

    Jan 31, 2010
    Michigan
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    Because I am just getting started I have been reading every goat book I can find. I would say out of the 6 or 7 i have read in the last month all but one or two stated as if it were fact that polled goats throw free-martins and/or hermaphrodites. Several of the books went in to great detail about it. Because the details in each book were very much the same and because so many of the books mentioned it I never doubted it for a second. I thought it was weird, but from being involved in other species i know that sometimes unexpected defects can be caused by things you would think could not possibly be related... like a white horse that is genetically homozygous for the right kind of Overo (a coat pattern) being born with an incomplete digestive tract and dying every single time (it is called Lethal White Overo), or like how hairless Chinese Crested Dogs have incomplete dentition, etc. So it didn't seem the least bit far fetched to me when i read it.
     
  18. logansmommy7

    logansmommy7 New Member

    925
    Nov 11, 2009
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    So glad to hear it isn't a big deal since I just got my beautiful (I guess I should say handsome) polled buck. I have planned to only breed him to horned goats, but if the occasion arose and I had a pretty polled girl to breed him to, I probably would! Wouldn't a hermaphrodite always be a possibility as in all of nature? Why polled to polled is there more of an incidence? :whatgoat:
     
  19. Dreamchaser

    Dreamchaser New Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Camp Verde, AZ
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I just bought that new book by Sue Weaver "Hobby Farms GOATS" and it talks about them:

    Page 30-31 "Whichever sex you're considering, be aware of one of the peculiarities of goat breeding: breeding polled goats to one another sometimes results in hermaphrodite offspring..."
     
  20. dvfreelancer

    dvfreelancer New Member

    192
    Aug 15, 2009
    Re: Had a bizarre encounter with a buyer

    I can see there's a shortage of research in goat breeding, sure is a lot of pop science going around. What's the background rate of hermaphroditic expression in goats? And how is the expression in polled animals different than that established background? How do you separate out genetic influences from environmental?

    Relating your experience is fine. You can say at your farm you've had 3 hermaphrodites from polled parents out of X number of babies, but you can't assume that applies anywhere else. There could be a million variables at play. Only years of careful research can determine which one is responsible. Something in the feed, maybe the wormer they're using, something they spray on the grass or in the soil.

    My goats eat acorns and oak leaves all day and never had a problem. Stacey said hers like acorns and don't get sick. Other people have had problems that may or may not be related to acorns, but they certainly believe that's the case. So I can't say they're not toxic to some species of goats under certain circumstances. I can say it doesn't bother my crew.

    Everybody wants black and white, definitive answers and life just doesn't work that way.