blood drawing problems

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by AlaskaBoers, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    okay, I need help. I tried to get zephyrs blood today, I chose her because she has a tighter neck. I shaved 3 inches from the center of her throat, and found one of the million 'cords' and inserted the needle up ino the skin. blood came out on either side of the needle but none actually got into the syringe, so I poked her again but I didnt go in as far, the blood kept flowing down, dribbling down her neck, but not into the syringe...I stopped the bleeding and put her away.

    ugg, it makes me so frustrated :angry: , I really don't have any friends willing to either hold the goat( afraid of goats , or needles- i say- get over it) or any vets that will even glance at a goat. The breeders, are all at work grrrrrr, I dont blame them but, grrrrrr

    any ideas of what i'm doing wrong???, I really need to get this stuff drawn. whew, i need to calm down.
     
  2. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    What gauge needle are you using. Are you pushing in just above the collar bone while drawing the blood? How are you restraining if someone is not there to help you?

    The only time that I drew blood by myself on a goat was Joe Dirt, and I did it by standing over him, holding just behind his front legs in my legs, used my left elbow to turn his head to the side, and my left hand to push on the neck to fill the vein, and stuck with my right hand - did you get all that??? :ROFL:
     

  3. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    22 guage 3/4" needle, I had her tied to the milk stand with her head up high.
     
  4. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
  5. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    22 is actually a little smaller then I would have sed - but should not have caused the problem that you explained. I would use a 20 if not an 18 guage. the smaller the number the bigger the needle :wink:
     
  6. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Lol Kelebek I understood what you said crystal clear. I've pulled blood on some goats by myself to. A little trickier, but it can be done.

    I find it harder to draw blood from a syringe. I Love using the butterfly needles for people. It gives you a flash of blood at the start of the line when you get a vein. Makes it so I go through the vein less. But I don't always have those. So what I usually do when I use a syringe is I take the needle off, and stick them with just the needle. If you get a steady drip of blood from the needle then you are in! The I just attach the syringe on it and fill it up :) I little messier than the butterfly, but it works.

    Sounds like you went right through the vein each time. But that at least means you are hitting it! Are you going in at an angle? Next time stick her with just the needle so you know when your in and not through. It takes practice. Don't get discouraged.
     
  7. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    You can also use the vaccutainer syringes - same concept as only the needle to start - but it doesn't show the "flash" then you put the red top tube straight in and it fills the blood tube instead of through the syringe and then into the blood tube.

    I will try to pull a goat this weekend and have son take video while my husband holds and I draw - would that help everyone out???
     
  8. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    Awww :hug: Sorry for your troubles. I plan on drawing my herd's blood next spring, hopefully I'll do it right!! :hair:
     
  9. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yeah, lol there are endless ways to pull blood. A video would be awesome. I wont be doing an blood draws until spring then I can make a video.... ha ha maybe. My goats are usually so bad they need one person to hold them and the other to draw the blood, then I would need someone else for a video. :slapfloor:
     
  10. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    That would be awesome Allison!!!
     
  11. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I talked to hubby and he said that he would be fine - but he said $5.99 per download of the video - :ROFL:

    We will do the video either Saturday afternoon or on Sunday and then upload for everyone!

    I will make a new post when it is ready. It will show how to properly hold/restrain the goat, how to look for the vein, how to hold off, and how to actually stick and draw.

    Hopefully it will help everyone.
     
  12. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    Thanks so much Allison! That is so sweet of you! And your helpers of course :greengrin:
     
  13. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Don't miss!! :ROFL: Just Kidding LOL
     
  14. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    that is why it will be my camera - I can record as many times as I need to make it look perfect - LOL!
     
  15. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    THANK YOU!! whew! that would be great, sounds like a few people need help anyway.

    so how would you....? just stick the needle in the vein, pop the needle out and put the tube up to it? i dont understand. also what is a butterfly needle. wow, i sound like i've never drawn blood, oh wait,,,,i havent, lol. thanks kelebek.
     
  16. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I will show how to draw from a standard 20 guage needle with a 3 cc syringe, as that is the only thing that you really can get from the feed stores - but when I talk to my friend (the vet) I will see about getting a vaccutainer holder and needles - but really I want to show with the tools that are easy to get from the feed stores - so everyone can see.
     
  17. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    ok thank you, I have another breeder up here coming to help,so maybe we can actually see some blood in a syringe, but that isnt until tuesday.
     
  18. ArcticGoats

    ArcticGoats New Member

    170
    Jun 9, 2008
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Hey! I have a goat named Zephyr!!!

    Anyway - here's a couple of photos of the equipment (i happen to do this kind of stuff for work sometimes) - I like the 'butterfly' (also sometimes called an 'angel wing') as you can see the blood - but if you don't get good flow right away that little hose can freeze up quick, if you have good flow the warmth of the blood keeps it going. You hold the wings down flat once you have a vein so it helps hold it in place.

    [attachment=1:3jsv0vnz]butterfly.jpg[/attachment:3jsv0vnz]

    [attachment=0:3jsv0vnz]vacholder.jpg[/attachment:3jsv0vnz]

    In the first photo - the butterfly is on the left, then the vacutainer needle is in the middle, then a vautainer holder. You can use all three together, or just the needle and holder (you then insert the vacutainer down the holder and push it onto the end, the holder helps you change vacutainers without losing your vein) - second photo. Most butterflys come with the vacutainer needle, or you can buy them seperately to use with the holder. I also like the butterfly because when I change vacutainers, its easy to pull the needle out and lose your vein and with the butterfly all the tugging is on the other end of the hose...).

    I would recommend either way over a syringe pull as that can break your blood cells so if you want to do a red or white cell count it will screw up the count. The syringe pull is ok if you are doing other things.

    Anyway, thats probably about as clear as mud - but at least you can see what these things are.

    Good luck!
     
  19. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    thank you artcigoats, that was helpful, i ahd no clue what those were. do you work in a hospital or pharmacy?
     
  20. ArcticGoats

    ArcticGoats New Member

    170
    Jun 9, 2008
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    i work in wildlife so we occasionally take blood...

    a couple of more hints:

    -be sure to go in at an angle (i think someone else mentioned that too) - about 30 degrees. Imagine the vein running along like a hose - you have to insert the needle along the center of the hose.

    -keep the beveled edge of the needle up so it doesn't get pressed into the side of the vein

    -think of other ways to restrain you goat - like a squeeze chute/stanchion or hobbles or ???? (a 250 pound cowboy works great)

    -if you miss and have to pull the needle out - put pressure on the hole before and as you are pulling the needle out for a minute or so to keep from having a hemotoma - that way you can try again.

    Anyway - hope you got some blood by now!