[MiddleRiver]

the vet had come out to fix my buck's ( GT is 8.5 yrs old-Alpine ) teeth as his front tooth was loose and not sitting right anymore so was rubbing his lip and making him sore. Well the vet filed it down, and said it should eventually fall out - gave him some banamine. He was concerned though that their could possibly be other internal problems that could cause his loss of condition, rough hair coat, and possible loose tooth - or it could just be that it's hard for him to eat - but we pulled blood just to make sure.

He called after i left work so i just got the message this morning...

His liver and kidneys look good, his red and white blood cell count looks good... he said he is concerned though, as his muscle enzymes are not normal. He said he will have to look in the books and talk to some other vets to try and figure out why and will get back to me today.

What are the muscle enzymes and any ideas why they are not normal ? I would just like to have other suggestions for my vet when he calls just in case he doesn't think of something. Thanks all !!!

 

[enjoytheride]

Fecal, fecal, fecal..........
I'm sure you've heard the old vet school saying about hearing hoof beats and not thinking zebras? Parasite problems and mineral imbalances are goatie hoofbeats. It may be something exotic but those things are easily addressed and would do that before everything else.
What is his daily ration exactly? Does he get any grain and what kind of hay?

 

[StaceyRosado]

hmm that I don't know. But do ask him about the iron levels. If he is anemic the bood sample should show that.

 

[MiddleRiver]

He said he was going to check his iron and copper levels - i haven't heard yet what they are. He was just wormed, and i'm looking into getting some Val. wormer from the vet to use on him next as well as a fecal.

I'm hopeing it is just something easy to fix. Thanks !

 

[susanne]

any new info from the vet?
are you supplementing with selenium?

 

[MiddleRiver]

Just talked to him last night - GT was given a BOSE shot when we pulled the blood. On the 19th the vet will be back out to do blood again, and a fecal. He said we may be looking at ( best case) a sel. or mineral issue, or ( worst case and not likely ) a tumor - possibly other things as well. Once we get the next results we will go from there.

I need to get weight on him and a better hair coat before winter is all the way here. I've started feeing him barley. He is also getting alfalfa pellets and BOSS, and minerals ( beef cattle ones-i did get my feed store to order purina goat min. - they should be in on Mon. or the following Mon. ) and hay.

I'm stopping at the feed store tonight, and was thinking about getting beet pulp - what kind should i get, and how should i feed it, and how much ???

Thanks !

 

[susanne]

do every feed change very very slowly. he does not need an upset rumen on top of his health issue. i feed the shredded beet pulp.
i would start with a handful at feeding time, just dry out of the bag.
if you feed him grain add a teaspoon ammonium chloride to prevent urinary calculi. you will get that in the feed store as well.
the cattle mineral is probably better than the purina goat mineral. it has too much molasses in it and a lot of salt. :roll:
ask if they can order the sweetlix mineral meat maker, goats are doing really well with it. another good mineral is cargill onyx, but i have no personal experience with it and my feed dealer seems not to get it .

 

[getchagoat (Julie)]

Wish he would have checked the iron. Are his eyelids pale?

 

[MiddleRiver]

Thanks susanne ! So i want the shreded bp with out molassas right ? I'll check on the sweetlix mineral as well.

getchagoat - yes he is pale. Vet said he isn't all that worried about iron though, as his red blood cells were normal - should i give him red cell anyways ? If so, how much ?

Thanks !

 

[susanne]

i have the beet pulp with molasses as this makes it better digestable for the goat. i keep molasses out of the feed as much as i can. they get a dry grain mix on the milk stand, and the molasses in the mineral is more than enough. pale gums can have many different reason. did your vet do a fecal check?
can you take a picture from you buck and post it here? copper deficiency comes with pale mucus membrane as well and before you have the result from your vet i would not supplement with iron.
Copper’s availability is reduced by iron, sulfur, molybdenum & zinc.
here is a great website where you can get info about copper deficiency in goats.
http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

 

[StaceyRosado]

Just putting my plug in for purina minerals. I really like them and my goats have done better on purina minerals then Sweet Lix meat maker, go figure :shrug:

I think he has a copper or iron deficency just from the pictures I have seen and your description of him.

 

[susanne]

i hope the chart is readable. :wink:
even though your goats like the purina, i think it is very expensive for the amount of salt that is in there.

 

[StaceyRosado]

I didnt' say they like it better I said they DO BETTER on it.

Experience and trial and error got me to that point.

I can read all I want but what works for my goats is what I am going to use.

I have done comparatives on minerals and I am very happy with purina's minerals.

You can use what works for you but I am happy with what works for me.

 

[liz]

I use the Producers Pride loose minerals labled for goats and beef on pasture because it has copper it can't be used on sheep. Mine do fine with the salt content..which is a good thing because it makes them drink more water when they should.
Also this is readily available at my local Tractor Supply, which I noticed that there are ALOT of different brands used by different breeders across the country that I have never even heard of. For example, I knew that Purina made dog food and cat food but I didn't know that they made livestock products.

 

[sparks879]

i think a lot of it just depends on your area, whether you goats do better on one or the other. The thing about the minerals sold across the country is they are just one generaic recipe. Yes they are specified for goats they however are not specified for one particular area. the west coast tends to need more selinium then other places and so on. i feed several different minerals throughout the year. the goats tend to know what they need. i offere a few different things for my goats, the get bo-se a couple of times a year as well as a mineral called horsegaurd. it comes in a pelleted form, others say horse vitamins are not good for goats, but my goats do well on them. I have been feeding them for years, and have easier kiddings and better looking coats. My bucks however need a little more then that. they have a pan of meat maker as well.
Another way to tell copper deficiany is the tail. Does he have hair on the end of it? or is it bald?
beth

 

[StaceyRosado]

well said Beth.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Beth - the tip of his tail is completly bald - thats one thing i haven't been able to ever fix since i've had him, even though his coat did get better this summer. Will the purina have enough copper in it to fix this ?

Thanks all !

 

[goathappy]

Bald tails or 'fish tails' are a sign of copper deficiency. I would consider drenching him for a month to see if that helps. The copper drenching will give him enough copper just to get back on the road to being sufficient.
Purina minerals contain a good amount of copper, but it will depend if your buck is going to eat them or not. We fed purina for a while and it had to much salt in it, so the goats wouldn't eat it. If your buck will eat it that is good.
Bucks seem to need more copper than does do, they have a lot more stress to deal with this time of the year.

 

[enjoytheride]

I have been struggling with copper issues too- it is not that my goats give overt signs of deficiency (maybe a little) but others in the area have mentioned about how their goats needed it and their worm problems etc became less when they bolused with copper.
But you can read about overdosing copper which can be fatal as well as underdosing, so I think that caution is needed.

 

[sparks879]

Classic sign of copper deficiancy. There are copper bolus' available. The problem with them is i have heard its easy to overdoes them on the bolus. Like somone just said an overdose can be fatal. I have never used the bolus for this reason. I would try the copper drench, you can regulate this a bit more. A lot of goat minerals just don't have enough copper in them. Like i mentioned in another post it all depends on your area. Purina goat mineral is formatted for goats in general, not goats in your area. Its tough to find something that is formulated for your area. this is why we have to play with minerals so much. There is a lady in oregon i believe she is a vet, that produces her own minerals and sells them to the local feed stores. This is formulated specifically for goats in the central oregon area. NOw if only we get someone to do that in every state....but i guess that would be a perfect goat world.
beth