Bo-Se?

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Perfect7, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    I finally got my bottle of Bo-Se in! :leap: Yes, I'm the proud owner of the first ever bottle of Bo-Se sold in this county. It seems the feed store knows more about the goat populations (and health) in this county than the vets because he said we have a large boer goat breeder (herd of 100+) in this area that just lost an enobled buck to selenium and thiamine deficiency right after a big show win. He did the testing and our area is VERY selenium deficient.
    So, now that I have it do I go ahead and give everyone a dose just "CYA"? Or do I wait before kidding next year to give it? I currently have 10 babies on the ground ranging from 3 days to nearly 2 weeks old.
    If I wait until next kidding season, how soon before kididng do I give it? Give it to the babies immediately after kidding even if no issues? Sorry to ask so many questions, but there's really nobody around here to ask since I'm the "first ever" to even have the stuff. :laugh:
     
  2. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    Look them over first. If they are showing signs of deficiant the sure dose. Even the little ons will be OK. BTW I recently learned the ALL shots given to goats can be done sub-Q. Apparently they can absorb it all just well there as IM and it is less painful.
     

  3. ()relics

    ()relics New Member

    258
    Dec 25, 2010
    Indiana
    I would dose all your goats. 2.5cc per 100#. It can't hurt. Even the kids can have it, probably just 1/2cc each. You do not want to see a deficiency in your animals before you treat; You want to Prevent the symptoms caused By a deficiency...
     
  4. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thank you guys. I was leaning towards dosing since our herd has already exhibited signs (one baby very weak in the legs corrected with oral selenium and high dose vit E, and a doe with retained placenta).
    Next year, how soon before kidding? A month? A week? Thanks!
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I disagree it CAN hurt if you give something not needed! Selenium poisoning is a fatal condition and can NOT be reversed.

    IM not saying you shouldn't give it but I won't tell you to do so either.
     
  6. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I have to agree with Stacey...it can do more harm than good.... deficiency can be treated......... over dosing can be fatal......if they have loose salt and minerals.... remember they are already getting some in their diet...some eat more than others and keep up with what their bodies need.... while others ...may not eat enough or none at all......which is hard to determine...how much for each or even if they need it or not... :(
     
  7. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thanks guys. I'm totally confused, but have not yet given Bo-Se and everyone is diong well. The second kid born with a weak hind leg has straightened on his own with nothing done. We do give grain with added selenium and also loose minerals with selenium added. :shrug:
    Does anybody give it routinely a certain period of time before kidding as a preventative?
    I know I would give it immediately for a retained placenta and for kids with weak legs but am confused now as to whether or not I give it at any other time?
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    It usually isn't necessary... unless they are showing deficiency signs..... :hug:
    Especially if... they are getting the loose salt and minerals.... :wink:
     
  9. ()relics

    ()relics New Member

    258
    Dec 25, 2010
    Indiana
    I dose all my does 6 weeks pre-partum at 2.5cc/100#, all my kids get 1/2cc at birth then another 1/2cc when they get their cd/t booster at 31 days, and all my bucks get a dose every 6 months. The kids are the most important and least able to get enough selenium. They drink milk from a defiecient dam, eat defiecient hay/feed, and seldom, at least from my experience, use any of the loose mineral until they are older. This would Pre-dispose a kid to a lifetime of being selenium deficient, which in turn pre-disposes its unborn kids. You get the idea, eventually the entire herd is deficient and becomes "not so productive" ie: lots of weak single kids, some refusing to nurse or with bent/non working joints and does that look horrible No matter how much feed they are getting,goats losing patches of hair and looking, on the whole, "unthrifty", making them More prone to parasite blooms.
    The dose rate listed is based on .2ppm while the bottom end of the toxcicity level is 3ppm, that would put the suggested dose rate at 15X below the very bottom limit of the toxcicity level. My area is very deficient of selenium, meaning , my pastures, my hay, and any feed that is locally processed, all lack selenium. I provide a specific goat formulated loose mineral, which still is provides no where near enough selenium,Goat Power Mineral(ADM) 18 ppm selenium. Salt has absolutely No Selenium in it...This is JMO based strictly on my area and My methods.
     
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    BoSe is only a short term fix for a deficiency. It is not long lasting.

    Right now what I do and this may not be right for everyone though is to give it right before breeding. This I am told helps them to be healthier before they are pregnant and for bucks healthier through rutt.

    I only give it to kids who present themselves weak at birth. If they are not weak they do not get BoSe. Chances are to high for them to OD and then die. I cant risk that. Ive seen many people OD their kids on selenium I dont want to do the same.

    Your are better off using BoSe only as needed and giving it before breeding. Some do give before kidding but I find that risky because if mom doesnt need it then you are endangering not only her but the kids as well. Again selenium poisoning is not able to be reversed and the goat will die.

    having a loose mineral with selenium in it out free choice will provide them with the minerals through out their life that they need.
     
  11. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thank you, guys. I will supplement before breeding and watch for signs of selenium deficiency. It's good to know that the dose is much lower than the toxic level, too, so I can give it to any does that look deficient prior to kidding.
    Part of our problem is my fault. We ran out of our goat feed (noble goat 16 grower) about two weeks before kidding and our local feed store was sold out. DH just picked up another brand without added selenium and (stupid me) didn't think much about it. :( We definitely paid for that mistake. Would have been MUCH cheaper to drive an hour to get our regular brand.
    Everybody's been back on our regular feed and doing really well, mamas look excellent even those feeding trips. The pasture is lush and green so everyone is getting fat and no weak babies.
    I know our problem was selenium deficiency and I will dose everyone before breeding next fall (and any weak kids/retained placentas right away). I think right now everyone is doing well so I'm afraid to mess anything up. :grouphug:
     
  12. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    All my goats get Bo-Se every 6 months to a year. Some are really deficient and I give at every 3 months. If you know the goats have never had BoSe it shouldn't hurt them at all. Just make sure you weigh everyone and underdose if there is a question. Selenium deficiency can kill also, so it's a fine line we tread.
     
  13. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    THanks runaround. I know none of the adults have had Bo-Se in the last year since we've had them, and certainly none of our new kids have. I am giving some to our purchased buckling and his 1/2 sister because their sire was deficient when he was sold at the same time as them. Since it's way under toxic dose it shouldn't hurt anybody to give it (and to the buck twice yearly) now. I guess it is better safe than sorry because our area is extremely deficient....and that's why I bought it. I just don't want to kill my herd with a shot, so a bit paranoid. All does will get it this fall, and maybe then again before kidding.
    I was reading up on it on the Jack Mauldin site as well and for their meat goats they do it per 6 months on all bucks, prior to breeding, and 4-6 weeks prior to kidding on freshened does, then on all new kids. I will definitely lean towards under dosing for those I can't get an exact weight on. Still scared but....would also hate to keep away something helpful that I have on hand. :hair:
    I sure wish there was a blood test to show deficiency, but the vet said it's not accurate at all.
     
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Use your best judgment.... :hug:
     
  15. DRJ Ranch

    DRJ Ranch New Member

    94
    Apr 2, 2010
    Anderson, California
    Well know you got me thinking I just got a bottle of Bo-Se and was thinking of giving every one a shot when I do CDT and de worming. I feed wet cobb every now and then but a bag can last me a whole months its mainly a treat all the animals are grass fed.

    So ill have to look at what the sign of selium defencies before giving shots.
     
  16. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    What's scary is that the signs of selenium toxicity are the same as those for selenium deficiency. :hair: I think we're going to also get our soil tested here, even though I'm pretty sure it's very deficient.
    Our last single buckling back was down in his left front pastern but it straightened up just fine after two days with no interventions at all. :shrug: