boer buckling

Discussion in 'Goat Conformation' started by Nibaga, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    hi guys i would like to know what u guys think of these 2 boer bucklings.
    they are about 3 weeks old..
    thank you guys
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  2. LibertysBoerGoatRanch

    LibertysBoerGoatRanch Active Member

    435
    Aug 26, 2016
    What are you plan on using them for? Personally if they were born on my farm I'd wether them and send them to freezer camp.
     
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  3. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Yeah I agree with LibertyBoer. They just don't have the mass you are looking for in a buck.
     
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  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    For 3 weeks old, they do seem like they are not filling out any.

    Do they get creep feed at all? Grain? Alfalfa hay?

    Have you gotten a fecal for worms and cocci?
    They are at the right age for either one.

    Is the Sire and dam well muscled and have good bone structure or basic boers?

    I usually evaluate mine at 1 month old to see where they are going. So these boys are a week off of when I judge them. But her it goes anyway.

    I do like the #133 buck more than the other one. But he has a feminine look to him right now. Is he only getting a milk diet perhaps?

    #135 I would band him. Nothing stands out to me about him.

    A good question is what are you wanting to use him for or are you wanting to sell them as bucks?
     
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  5. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    thanks guys for all the replies.. i would like to buy it to use them to crossbred our feral goats in the Philippines. Sire and dam are imported from Australia. I wanted to get this guy #137 but its already been reserved. so i got only choices from those 2 bucklings. i uploaded the dam (itzy) and sire (mr scrooge) of #133


    In the phil, alfa alfa don't grow well in some region. so basically readily available forages are, napier grass, indigofera madre de agua, madre de cacao to name some.

    I've been searching for loose minerals in the phil market but could not find likes the one in the U.S I only found mineral feed mix do you guys think its ok to give it to goats as their loose mineral? the contents are
    Per 500 g: Dicalcium phosphate 97%, vits A 150,000 I.U., D3 30,000 I.U., E 500 I.U., potassium iodide 100 mg, manganese sulfate 3,500 mg, ferrous sulfate 3,500 mg, copper sulfate 1,500 mg, cobalt sulfate 1,500 mg, zinc sulfate 200 mg.

    sorry guys for asking too much.

    #144 is available too.

    thank you
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  6. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    Are you planning to use their offspring for meat or dairy? If dairy, then you don't want to use the buckling with 4 teats by his scrotum. I can see that you might not have a lot of choices in goats if you live on a smaller island.

    I'm far from an expert on minerals, but I do notice that the mix you describe has no iron or selenium. Another source of minerals that might be good for you is seaweed. I don't know if it has selenium or iron though... You may have to research local sources...
     
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  7. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    I would like to use them primarily for meat. You are right, there's not a lot of reputable breeders in my area, if there is, most are imported from australia which is costly. imported goats can go up to 1k to 1.5k
    these bucklings are offered for 400 USD, and will be released after 4-5 months of age.

    other than mineral blocks i give them biweekly injection of vitamins a b-comlex d, e. during rainy season. then every 1-2 months afterwards.

    if its ok then i might try to give the mineral feed mix as their loose minerals.
    for iron there's available in the market administered through injection.
    and for selenium will try to ask in agriculture supply.

    thank you.

    picture attached are imported boers from Australia, cost about 1k minimum and up
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  8. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    Wow--goats are expensive there! Do you just catch the wild ones? But the wild bucks are too wild? If you have your does already I'd love to see photos of them. It might also help people to advise you on a choice of buck, if they could see the does you have-to get a buck who is strong in conformation where the does are weak.
     
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  9. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    its hard to catch them in the wild so, most of my does are domesticated ones.
    yes its true, its expensive! their quite small compared to boer or anglo... average weight are 15-25kg. my backyard is not up par to american standard, so bear with me :),

    I plan on crossbreeding them until F6 or more with different fullblood boer of each generation.
    I have a percentage boer at 75%. and some of my does are pregnant.
    2nd generation will be cross with fullblood boer.

    and also I plan on getting a pair fb boer or 2 doelings.... and will sell their offspring if i'll be successful on breeding them. will upload pictures of those fullblood doelings

    you can buy these native goats for around 40-70 usd. max and rarely at 100usd
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  10. I am sorry to say but the first pics posted are the size of my Boer bucks at 1.5/2 weeks old, and they are only 1/4 Boer. Deff not for breeding. - But good luck :) I do understand you can only work with what you got.
     
  11. But I think mixing wild genes with Boer is an excellent way to go ! - yes that goes against everyone opinion. But by doing this you have the lovely disease resistant genes and hoofs that don't need so maintenance. Boer goats need a lot of attention in my experience, esp on hoofs. But by breeding them with my island goats I have much hardier animals. Hope your cross breeding is a success!
     
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  12. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    thanks lizwiz, yeah i've notice that my percentage boer that i have now doesn't grow as fast as fb boers hoofs. Yeah. I have a friend who told me that fb boer are not hardy as much as our native goats, probably because their not accustomed to our weather, but i will take the risk. Our boer goats here are like left over boers cause they aren't as big as compared to ones that are from other countries i've seen in youtube or for instant toth boer farm hehe

    thanks for the input. I need a lot of help choosing my buck or at least the best one that is available.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    catharina and toth boer goats like this.
    1. Such a shame you get 'left overs', my island is kind of the same, I do sympathise. So I have done AI (sperm straws) for my does, this way I can get good stock from high quality bucks but cheaper ! You may be lucky and get kids born that have a chunkier gene than their father, that is when you should breed that meatier kid and cull the father (sire), to bring out that meaty gene. - Thats kind of how I do it. Line breed rather than inbreed.
    2. Kiko goats would be perfect for your situation, meat goats and hardy. Best of luck Nibaga :)
     
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  13. not sure why there are numbers in my comments .. sorry
     
  14. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    they do not offer A.I in my area, and have not heard of it yet. They don't even want to use their bucks for stud service. I've read about line breeding and inbreeding. Would you recommend father to daughter? the very least i've read was grand father to daughter or vice versa. and never for siblings?
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Thank you so much for the compliments about my goats. :)

    You want these ingredients in their diet. If possible, see link below.
    http://www.sweetlix.com/products/C14A34/meat-maker-products.aspx

    Another one:
    SE-90 with Selenium
    [​IMG]Selenium-deficient diets can cause multiple health issues, including heart disease and reduced reproduction. Our mineralized salt with 90 parts per million of selenium helps protect your herd against these and other diseases.

    • Helps maintain health and protects animals against several diseases
    • Works as an antioxidant
    • For all classes of beef cattle and horses
    GUARNTEED ANALYSIS
    Salt (NaCI) Min 95.0%
    Salt (NaCI) Max 98.5%
    Zinc (Zn) Min 3,500 ppm
    Iron (Fe) Nim 2,000 ppm
    Manganese (Mn) Min 1,800 ppm
    Copper (Cu) Min 280 ppm
    Copper (Cu) Max 420 ppm
    Iodine (I) Min 100 ppm
    Selenium (Se) Min 90 ppm
    Cobalt (Co) Min 60 ppm

    I get both and mix them together to get the best mixture for them.
    The bucks need ammonium chloride to prevent urinary stones. Or fed a 2:1 ratio.
    Some of our feeds have it in it here or you can buy the powder form. Not sure if you have access to it or not?


    I still like #133 the best so far, his Sire is muscled, wide looking and big looking. His Dam isn't too bad, she is OK for a boer. So, seeing them #133 has potential if fed right and kept parasite free.

    With minerals, you want, good cooper, selenium, zinc, these are some top minerals needed. the others are important too, but these are the top ones.

    I do see some of your does have fishtails, which is copper deficiency. Can you get copper bolus?

    Do know, iron shouldn't be fed in high levels, it cancels out copper, which is crucial for goat health.

    Reasons for goats to not grow well are:

    Genetics, look at the Sire and Dam for what you want in a buck. Do know, you can tell though if that buckling has what it take or not, by 1 month old. Some can change to the better or worse.

    Worm loads: Be sure to keep an eye on worm load, checking the inner lower eyelids occasionally go by the famancha chart. Or getting an occasional fecal helps monitor them and when to treat and what for. Worms can stunt growth.
    When you get a fecal done, have it checked for cocci and worms.

    Cocci: A growth destroyer.
    I have mine on cocci prevention as they grow. If cocci strikes, it destroys the gut lining so no nutrients can be absorbed causing stunted growth. You can never get that growth back if the damage is bad and was left too long before treatment was given. After 2 weeks old, a kid can from stress, can get cocci and/or worms. Cocci doesn't always show scouring signs in adults and/or kids.
    In adults, it can be a thin doe who will not gain even if fed well, same as worms for thin, unthriftiness, rough hair, can occur.

    Not fed a proper diet as they grow, like good hay, alfalfa is the best or alfalfa pellets can be put in it's place if you have some available. Also a good 16% protein grain fed in a creep feeder.

    I tell breeders, just think of goat kid like human kids.
    Ask yourself this: Do we feed our children ice cream and cake when they are growing and expect them to be healthy? No, we don't, so it is the same way for goat kids. They need these things for good health and growth.

    No to siblings or father to daughter.
    The only way anyone could chance that is if both are really nice, no flaws. Not narrow or small boned. Because it will come back bad full fold, if they are not good in conformation, ect. It can turn out really bad or really good. All depends on the genes and flaws within them.

    Sorry for the book, hope you can find something close to what I have been listing here for your goats health and grow potential.
     
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  16. Totally agree with everything you said tothboer ! :D Deff know where to come on the internet for advice ;)
     
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  17. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    you said it well lizwiz, good thing I came across on this website. and to the wonderful members willing to help and give advice, especially on me who isn't well experience.

    thank you for tips and advice toth boer, i'd definitely look in to that, for the cocci and fecal test. I don't know if they do that here, but will ask the breeder if he knows someone.

    is there a specific brand name to for cocci treatment or prevention?
    I've found dimethox on the internet but aren't sure if its the right 1.

    For#133 and #144 both bred from the same sire, but will go on and take #133 :)


    I will surely look into it, hopefully we have copper bolus here if not, will try to look online if they can ship it here.

    I always check their eye lids once a week, and have the famencha chart with me.
    I use albedenzole and ivermectin for deworming, a friend told me to switch brand so worms don't get immune. will plan to get at least 4 different types of dewormer

    for selenium, I don't know yet if there's avail in the market but will ask breeders around.
    for copper, I have found but copper block lick. will buy this instead if cannot find powdered ones.

    Again thanks for the advice, tips and info's, really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  18. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    I see your goats are ignoring the Jackfruit--very interesting! I wish I could grow something goats would ignore!

    The feral goats there seem pretty diverse! Some are quite pretty.

    Regarding AI (artificial insemination) there are classes you can take to learn to do it yourself, & I think the idea behind the advice was to use imported semen perhaps--though you'd have to check your country's laws on that. Good luck with your project!
     
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  19. Nibaga

    Nibaga New Member

    25
    Jul 13, 2017
    Seems like their not interested much in fruits, but they do love to eat mangoes.
    most does have airplane ears hehe.. I don't know how semen importation works here but will ask info about it.

    thank you and good luck to you as well.
     
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