boer wether with Polio or Listeriosis...

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by jcarr492, May 18, 2011.

  1. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Dd's wether, Buttercup, is not acting right. We went out to feed them this morning and he had his head thru the fence. I pulled him back cause I knew he wasn't stuck, no horns. But he was very floppy...no balance at all. Almost like he'd been drinking whiskey all night. Checked his temp, it was 100.3. Gums look okay too. He would lay his head on dd's shoulder for balance. He walked to the water bowl and fell over in it. Heading to the vet here in a bit, waiting for them to open. He was born Feb 15th I think...not definate as I don't have his paper in front of me..I know it was no earlier than the middle of January. He's her 4H goat for our fair in October...so far..she's not having good luck with him.
     
  2. icboers

    icboers New Member

    69
    Dec 6, 2010
    Blue Ridge,TX
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    Sounds like Polio to me. Treatment is Thiamine and Penn. I also add Dexamethasone to that as it helps reduce brain swelling in the event it may be Listerosis since the treatments are the same because they have very similar symptoms.

    Hopefully your vet will be able to help him.

    Let us know how he's doing and what the vet says.

    Karla
     

  3. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    Vet called me back, said he's treating him for Listeriosis and Polio to cover both to be safe. While we were there, he gave an injection of thiamine, b12, and a steriod, drew some blood too. I'm picking him back up after lunch. Said he was giving him Nuflor and I'd need to give him Penn orally, thiamine, probiotics, and a molasses/corn oil/karo syrup mixture. Not sure what to do with the mixture though. Do I give it directly orally or what? Guess he'll tell me when I get there to pick Buttercup up.
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    I am sorry... that your goat is ill.... :( Your vet should give you instructions on how to give things....sounds like you have a good vet that knows goats...... :hug:
     
  5. icboers

    icboers New Member

    69
    Dec 6, 2010
    Blue Ridge,TX
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    Be careful with the molasses/karo/corn oil mix, you can scour them pretty easy with it. It is given as a drench for energy, I like just straight molasses or karo, no need to add oil to an already compromised rumen.

    The penn needs to be given as a shot, not orally. Also not sure why he gave Nuflor? Unless he suspects pneumonia from being down. Nuflor is not part of the treatment for Polio/Listerosis.

    My treatment is 2cc Thiamine IM, 4cc Penn IM 3X per day until symptoms disappear. i give 1cc/50# of Dexamethasone 1X per day. I have saved several goats with this treatment.(these are kid doses based on an avg. weight for that age).

    Karla
     
  6. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    Karla...thank you for that. I will talk to him about it when I get there at 1. I'm not sure if he gave Nuflor or not. I know he mentioned Nuflor..but there was so much he was telling me, and I was walking around their pen trying to see if there was anything he could have eaten triggering it...that I'm not sure if he said he gave it or not. I will hold off on the mix then, maybe give just straight Karo or molasses without the oil.

    I picked up Vita Charge paste at the feed store. They didn't have Fast Track. Will this be good for a probiotic or should I just go with the ProBios?
     
  7. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    Stick with the ProBios paste...and I would be injecting the PenG...Not giving it orally, the metabolism is so fast in a goat that any oral antibiotics are not in the system long enough to do any good.
     
  8. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Re: boer wether not acting right....

    OKay..I'll swing back by the feed store and exchange it for Probios. Also...What/How do I get water in to him? What about feeding? I have Chaffhaye and their eating X-Clamation feed. Is Chaffhaye okay to feed to him? I thought I read online something about not feeding a sweet feed that is molasses based. But I could have read wrong too. I haven't seen him yet...fixing to head over and pick him up.
     
  9. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    With the meds in him, he should be turning around...if he can drink from a bucket, let him otherwise you may need to syringe water into him, just be sure he swallows.
    I'm not familar with Chaffhaye but if it's what he's been eating, offer it to him.
     
  10. icboers

    icboers New Member

    69
    Dec 6, 2010
    Blue Ridge,TX
    The Vita Charge paste is fine, it also has a probiotic in it.

    Molasses has been reported to be linked to blocking Thiamine uptake, but it has not been proven that it always will. I have fed sweet type feeds before with no problem, in fact that is what my milker has been eating on the stand.

    Chaffehaye is an excellent thing to feed him right now or anytime. I use it and really like it, in fact I nursed a goat through Polio with chaffehay, it was all I could get him to eat.

    If he is blind you may have to show him the bucket and let him drink if he will, if not you will need to drench him. I like Gatorade to drench with as it gets the electrolytes back in them.

    Karla
     
  11. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    He can't drink from a bucket. So I'm syringe feeding him water 8oz at a time. So Gatorade is good to drench with? How much do I drench with if giving Gatorade?
     
  12. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Gatorade won't hurt him.....give him as much as he'll take.
     
  13. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Well....he's taken a turn for the worse I'm afraid. We have no idea if we're dealing with Polio/Listeriosis or not. His brain is firing off so badly that he now has involuntary movement of his head/jaw. He is grinding his teeth and we can't get his mouth to open up. Had to rush him this evening back to the vet as an emergency. I went out at 5 and gave him his B1 shot and came in to finish up supper. Janaya went out about 45 min later to feed the other goat. Came in and said Buttercup was foaming at the mouth and standing in the middle of the pen with his head up like he was stargazing. Ran outside and he was foaming and making strange noise, like a lot of bubbles in his mouth. His head was shaking/jerking and his head was up, like he was looking at the sky. I noticed his stomach looked kinda bloated and called my brother. I didn't have any baking soda..so I administered 20cc of veggie oil and by then he was down on the ground. I kept him in an upright position and dd held his head up. I started to massage his rumen area to no avail. My brother drove up and we couldn't even get him to stand up at all. We called the vet, luckily my brother has his cell number and he was still at the office. We rushed him over and tried to tube him to release the air, but he was so tight there was blood on the end of the tube when he pulled it out. So he had to insert a 14gauge needle in to the side of his rumen to release the bloating. That worked. But he was so worked up with the tremors or whatever they call going on with his head, the vet gave him a very mild sedative to help hopefully calm him down, but not knock him out. He's still awake, but laying down. I propped him up against a slanted plywood in the shed on hay, but he keeps folding his head/neck all the way backward. When I move it forward, I have to actually used pressure to hold it forward cause his muscles are bringing it back. He's due for another B1 shot at 10pm. Still giving him water, but vet said to not give him anything else like the molasses mix, maybe just Karo. I can't even feed him. He can't open his mouth. I burst in to tears tonite...its just so stressful. He's not even my goat...but I'm attached. I feel so helpless for him. I'm learning as I go. What I'm concerned about is, when we brought him home on april 30th...on May 1st he was down. He couldn't stand up for anything. Very lethargic. I posted about it on here that day I think. My sis in law came and gave him a Nuflor shot and again 3 days later. He got better even though we don't know truly what was wrong. Now he's down again. He was a 500.00 dollar that the breeder gave to my daughter for 200.00 because the original one we had on reserve was snake bitten and died. Is it strange to offer that high price of a goat for 200.00 as a replacement, or is that just good business? I know I probably wouldn't if I were in business..maybe at a discount, but not for 200.00. I don't know. I'm just hoping he pulls thru, but at this point, I'm not holding my breath.
     
  14. I am sorry to hear he is not doing well. Not sure about the breeder selling you a $500 goat for $200. I wouldn't discount one that much although if the goat you reserved couldn't be taken I would offer you a replacement for about the same price or refund your money at your choice.
    :pray:
     
  15. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Just got in from going out to give his B1 shot and check on his bloating. He felt a little bloated, but not as tight at earlier...my brother came over and helped me tube him to help relieve whatever was building up. Got him relieved. His head tremors are not as bad as earlier...but the tremors have now moved down into all his legs. Sigh....please God....lay your hand upon him and help him...I just know Buttercup has to be totally exhausted from all this.
     
  16. dobe627

    dobe627 Senior Member

    Oct 16, 2007
    southeast PA
    With him being wobbly he didn't end up on his back at anytime did he? I know with dorsal recumabncy they bloat really quickly. Hope he pulls through for you.
     
  17. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    I'm truly truly sad. John called me at lunch..he talked to a fellow worker and he raises cows. He asked us if we had any plastic they got in to. John didn't know. Then said just tarps up to protect them from rain/wind. Called me to ask if I notice any chewed up. BOOM. Last week I went out to put the tarps down for the rain and left them down cause of wind. I noticed a steering wheel size hole in the blue one..but nothing clicked. My brother said he even saw it yesterday..but it didn't register with him either cause we were so concerned about Buttercup. I feel like such an *ss that this was something that I could have prevented from happening if I had just went back out and rolled up the tarps!!! Our goats we had last year never ate our tarps...at all! So guess thats why it didn't click with me. I feel like I killed Jadyn's goat now because of my lapse of observation. I cried so hard driving back from Joshua's dental appt. I'm sick to my stomach. Poor Buttercup....I KNOW he was in pain and agony and suffering so much yesterday and I couldn't do a darn thing about it. As soon as I got here..I ran in and RIPPED the tarps down and got rid of them. Manson stood there looking at me and he's so lonely. The fair committee won't allow Jadyn to find another goat to tag in because alternates should be tagged in on tag in day. I can't tell Jadyn this is how he died. I just can't. I killed her turtle years ago and she's never forgotten it. I put them out in the morning sun for what was supposed to be for 30 min. I forgot all about them and her turtle died....basically cooked in his shell from 2hrs of sunlight. It was summer and got hot fast. John told me to just let her think he died from Polio...but I feel like I'm lying. Help me....I'm having a hard time with this and I'm beating myself up over it.
     
  18. jcarr492

    jcarr492 Member

    110
    May 2, 2011
    Texas Gulf Coast
    well, my brother and our vet got together to perform a makeshift autopsy out here on our pasture. There was only one small strand of tarp found in his stomach contents, 3 inches long and 1/16 inch wide. Vet said that wasn't enough to mess up his rumen. But...they did find one tiny water balloon. We have no idea where it came from. My kids aren't allowed to have water balloons, so we dont' buy them and no one has played with balloons out here in a LONG time. They have a swimming pool and water hose. So now we're trying to think where it came from. The only thing I can come up with is either one of the kids friends or cousins that came over recently and were in the pen with the goats with my kids, either had one and dropped it or it could have been stuck to a shoe, or fell out of a pocket. But we never buy them, so I don't see how it would come from us. It had stomach contents in it, so it may have been big enough to block the entrance to the small intestine causing him to maybe develop Polio? The vet took his head and is sending it off to UT or somewhere they are going to test it..out of his own pocket because he wants to know if they can find out exactly what we were dealing with. So he's better prepared in the future. What a day.
     
  19. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    :hug: I am so sorry :hug:

    The symptoms he had was very indicative of polio.... though, with the meds he was getting...you should have seen improvement.
    You are lucky enough to have a wonderful vet too...I hope a cause for the death is found. :hug:

    Don't blame yourself, I know it's hard not to but this could have been any number of things....and nothing you have done was the cause :hug: