Bottle Jaw?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by dutch, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    I had asked about a lump in my does neck, and no-one seemed to know what it was, and now I'm reading it could be "bottle jaw" and she should be de-wormed.
    I want to use the horse Safeguard on her, but she's nursing and I don't know if it's safe. The goat Safeguard says not to use on lactating goats.
    Have you ever heard of bottle jaw, and what can I use to de-worm her? Her kids are only 4 days old.
    Also would some Fastrack gel do her any good? The only symptom we've notice is a little constipation.
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    when they say not use it on lactating animals it means for human consumption. It is fine for the kids.

    I wouldn't use safeguard though since bottle jaw is from the barbar poll worm which safeguard in most places does not treat.

    Best to use Ivermectin or cydectin etc to treat your doe. And yes you can give it to her while she is nursing her kids.

    Fastrack will help her immune system so yes you can give her some of the gel.
     

  3. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    Here's all I have on hand, will any fo these work and how much.
    Ivermectin pour-on for cattle
    IverEase on-feed wormer for horses
    If not, what exactly should I get?
     
  4. rgbdab

    rgbdab New Member

    252
    Nov 26, 2007
    TEXAS
    And understand that the bottlejaw is a symptom of anemia due to the barber pole worms attaching to their stomache and sucking blood. They don't get thin like they would with tape worms and by the time they show symptoms they are very anemic. I would check the gumsand/or under the eyelids of all your goats to see if they are pink which is normal and if not they need to be wormed immediately and then again in 10 days. Other symptoms of anemia may include diarrhea, loss of appetite and fatigue. I lost 2 goats and very nearly another last year to barber pole worms and anemia. I spent over a thousand dollars on the 3 trying to save them with transfusions and still lost 2.
    She could use some iron supplement, I used geritol. Mine love raisins and they have iron. AND 1 of the ones I lost was a 6 week old kid that I didn't worm because I was advised not to since it was so young. But if the kid is nibbling on the ground, it can pick up worm eggs even though it is really not eating yet so I would worm it also if gums are pale. Good luck, Denise
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    personally I would buy the injectable ivermectin and give it orally. 1cc per 20lbs

    or I believe cydectin works as well - not sure of the dosage for that one.
     
  6. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    I looked it up in the TSC catalog, and there is a 50,200, and 500, which one should I get?
     
  7. getchagoat (Julie)

    getchagoat (Julie) New Member

    603
    Oct 5, 2007
    Waco, KY
    I didn't think it was bottlejaw because the way you described the lumps. You can give the ivermectin at 1cc per 30# I believe. Reworm in 7 to 10 days. Don't go over the 10 days. I prefer Cydectin, but Ivermectin is in the same class.

    Injectable iron produces the fastest results. You can give it orally - 2cc twice a day or 2cc once a day IM. Most are more comfortable with oral.

    If you don't want to use that, get some Red Cell - labeled for horses. Give 15cc or so twice a day orally. Put molasses in her water. Being an adult, she'll have a better chance. Do check the eyelids. That's the indicator for when you should worm your goats. Can you post a picture of her??
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    if you are asking about the injectable ivermection - I bought a generic brand of it from jeffers and it works just find. It was cheeper. So you can look into that.

    The amount you buy depends on how much you want to spend an how much you will need for your goats.

    I have minis so I dont' need as much and I dont' worm unless they are pale. So I need less wormer to get me through a year then someone with boers or standard dairy goats.
     
  9. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    I thought the different numbers incicated the strength of the stuff. What a moron!!!
    I'm not sure it's bottlejaw, her gums and eyelids look pink, but the lumps, her constipation and the fact after she delivered we were shocked at how thin she looked, and maybe, I'm thinking she might not be producing enough milk for 3 babies as they can't seem to get full. Those were all indications, and she should be wormed after delivery anyway, so that's what we're going to do.
    You are all so helpful, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
    Any more thoughts, I can use all the help I can get.
     
  10. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    From the way you describe it it sounds more like a milk goiter to me, which is perfectly harmless. Its quite commen in nursing kids.
    Where on her neck is it located? Under her throat on her neck? Is it a large somewhat squishy bump?
    If you're still worried about worms worm mom, kids will get it through the milk. Make sure you don't drink her milk for ten days.
    Or are there multiple lumps? If she looks pink in her membranes then its probably not worms or bottle jaw. Do you have any pictures of the lumps? We may be able to get a better idea if we see them.
    beth
     
  11. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    This IS the mom I'm talking about. I've seen the milk goiter in kids and know what it looks like and is harmless, but I am worried about the mom. I've never seen lumps like this before. It's the size of an egg, off to one side but under the jawline.
    I don't thisk worming her cant hurt anyway.
     
  12. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    What about CL? I have never had a goat with lumps before, so I don't know what else it could be... Has it ever opened up?
     
  13. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Ah im sorry i thought it was the kid you were worried about. Can you send me pictures. There are a few likely suspects but i would really need to see where the lump is to rule out a couple of things. What kind of goat is she? Also, when did the lump apear? before or after she kidded? The first thing that is popping into my mind is CL, which is bacteria infection of the lymph nodes. It apears as an abcess. A goat can carry it for a long time and one would never know about it. A stressful situation such as kidding can casue an abcess to form. One of the more commen places that abcess forms is on the neck under the ear. There can also be internal abcess' that set up in the brain spinal chord lungs and spleen.
    Boer goats seems to be one of the more commen breeds that is seen in. At least from cases i have seen thats the case. i don't know why.
    beth
     
  14. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    are there any new things developing with this case? Have you found anything new out about her lumps? Im curious to know.
    beth
     
  15. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    Nothing new really, we wormed her with Ivomec on Tuesday.
    Lump is the same, but it just isn't like an abcess. It's large and loose feeling and totally covered by hair. I will have to try and get a picture tomorrow.
    Her appetite is good, and all the normal "eliminations", behavior is normal.
    Like I said I'll try and get a picture tomorrow to show you.
     
  16. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Is it hard? or soft squishy ans warmer then areas around it? A lot of abcess continue to grow hair over them until they are ready to burst.
    thanks for the update i will look for the pictures.
    beth
     
  17. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
  18. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
  19. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    If you give the lump a tap and it "ripples", then that usually a sign that it is fluid filled. Cl lumps are firm from the get go- at least the ones my doe had always were.
    It could be a hematoma which is a blood filled swelling that happens when a blood vessel is broken under the skin and the blood pools into an area.
    Having said that, one of the spots my doe developed an abscess was on her neck in front on her jaw.
    As long as you catch any abscess before it breaks open, nothing can spread from it. So waiting til the hair falls off seems a good choice to me. No sense opening it up if you can drain anything yet anyway.
     
  20. dutch

    dutch New Member

    43
    Oct 7, 2007
    Hillsdale, Mi
    I think you may be right Stacey, but I don't really see what to do about it. Feed her iodized salt, or what?