breeding questions- genetics

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by tallgirl, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. tallgirl

    tallgirl Member

    86
    Oct 14, 2009
    I am wondering what flaws you would consider as "fixable", and what you would not keep in your herd. Also, are there traits which come from the sire only, and some from the dam only? If so which are which? Thanks so much!
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I would be willing to work with teat placement, rear udder height and with loose shoulders.

    Not a fan of toeing out and goats that are extremely hocky.
     

  3. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    yep, for dairy breeds I'd agree with Stacey.

    For meat breeds.... I'd be willing to give a bit on rumps.... I like the rump to be a bit steep as you get a heavier muscled animal, that is actually hardier in any terrain than the straighter rumped animals. I've also noticed LESS kidding issues with a more curved rump..... those are my only does that can get kids out no matter what positions they're in! LOL

    I don't like cow hocks as they are WAY too difficult to breed out... I know I have a few! LOL

    Really the traits that a breeder is willing to give a little on in a doe would depend on the strengths in their buck and vice versa though.

    I think the only thing for me that would be cause for immediate retirement would be bite issues or kidding issues due to pelvic width and bad mommas are a BIG NO NO over here.... if they won't raise their babies... I'm not breeding that line.
     
  4. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    Jess -- how funny! I like a more level rump -- I feel like a long loin and a more level rump gives that baby room to maneuver. A slight dip in the chine, imo, is mostly cosmetic and detracts from general appearance; but I'd pass on a short-bodied, shallow animal -- must have body capacity!!!!! ;] can't talk about teats/uddders -- not a dairy girl!
     
  5. citylights

    citylights Member

    824
    Jul 3, 2009
    Southern California
    I guess to answer the question more accurately -- I'd be willing to accept what I would consider cosmetic faults that would not affect productivity or longetivity -- a plainer head, a less than perfect ear set, a dip in the chine, higher shoulders, etc. I'd want to stick with as good structure as I could find -- strong straight legs and good body capacity.
     
  6. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    I will keep a goat in my herd as long as it produces kids that are an improvement over the parents. If I have a goat that consistently produces "duds" then there is no point for me to keep it. So far I haven't had that problem, but i've also invested in good quality bucks and does.

    I have one doe....built pretty ugly (she is old), but she does have an awesome pedigree. Anywho, she produces some of the best kids out of my herd...every time and has an awesome udder. Looking at her you would never think she produced such a nice looking kid. So to me it's more about what can a buck/doe produce rather than the goat itself.

    Teat placement, udder attachment, etc. can be improved through selective breeding. So can toeing out, steep rumps, posting rear legs, etc. Toeing out seems to be a hard one to get rid of though from my experience. Steep rumps seem to be pretty easy to improve through just one generation.

    I don't think there are certain traits that the dam or sire will always pass along.
     
  7. tallgirl

    tallgirl Member

    86
    Oct 14, 2009
    Thank you all for your input. It sure helps to be able to hear your opinions.
    What I meant by that second question - do goats have certain traits that are from one side or the other---for instance with humans I've heard that the balding gene is carried on the mothers side--- do goats have this sort of thing?
     
  8. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    The only trait that I know of that is definately carried by the buck is the udder genetics...he would pass along any strengths and /or weaknesses that his dam has to his doe kids, it's always best to try and breed a buck that can improve udders on his daughters.
    Example...if the bucks dam has great rear attachments, good medial and teat size...breeding him to a doe with a better fore udder and a rear needing height and a great medial will improve the udders on his daughters.
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    not always does a buck pass on the udder genetics -- I have seen some does udders come out looking just like their dam's. But it is more likely for the kids to receive the udder structure from their sire. Its just not across the board
     
  10. tallgirl

    tallgirl Member

    86
    Oct 14, 2009
    Is it true that the sex is determined by the sire?
     
  11. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
  12. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    I just got a doe as a freebie with another doe that I purchased. She comes from amazing lines, her sire and dam look great! Her sire won a ton in the show ring and produced great udders on his daughters. But this girl has the most horribly crooked hocks I have ever seen! They nearly touch in the back! She is beautiful except for those legs! She even has great rear leg angulation, but her hocks are horrendous. I am wondering if I can breed it out of her. I don't even know where they came from... Her sire, dam, and grand-parents all had perfectly normal legs. When the relatives don't have the fault, but it shows up really badly in the kid....then is it easier to get a good result? I'm wondering if it had anything to do with how she was raised, but I don't understand where it came from!
     
  13. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    When something "pops" up in kids that isn't obvious with the genetics behind them, my guess would be that it was a fluke and could easily be bred out but it could also come back with future generations.

    How old is she?
     
  14. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    She is two years old. My buck turned in pretty badly in the back when I got him. He was 4 months old and had been raised in a tiny pen. I turned him out in a large paddock where he could run and jump, and I hand walked him on a regular basis. His legs don't turn in at all now, at 8 months, although his toes do turn out somewhat.

    I am wondering if it was partially a result of the breeder/owner raising her in a tiny setting where she wasn't able to exercise and strengthen her legs properly. Especially if she was a kid who was born with legs that were a little funky. I've had a couple do that, although they straightened out within a few days by wobbling and jumping about. The people have owned her for her entire life.

    But they are really, really bad. Again, her parents and grand-parents don't have it. I've seen the parents in person, and seen multiple photos of all the grand-parents in side-shots and rear shots. Her relatives are to die for, and that is her only physical fault. Obviously not a candidate for showing, but I'm hoping it was a fluke and she won't pass it on to her kids if bred on a buck with super correct legs like my Gizmo.
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    is she down on her pasturns? can you give a BoSe shot? also copper deficiency can cause leg issues.

    Incorrect hoof trimming when pregnant or young and growing (or no trimming at all) can cause goats to become hocky.
     
  16. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    She isn't down on her pasterns. Supposedly the owners just gave both does a BoSe shot last week... I am wondering if she doesn't have several mineral deficiencies...she had trouble with her first set of kids. One died at birth, and the other succumbed to white muscle disease. I am not sure they supplemented their goats properly, although they had no problems with the others. They say she is the most timid out of the herd, so maybe she was getting bullied away from feed, and minerals...or maybe they gave feed with added minerals and she didn't get her proper share.

    It could have been lack of hoof trimming, but I'm not sure. They trimmed her hooves last week for me, but never got around to Banshee's... Maybe they procrastinate a lot on hoof trims? Hard to say, I just don't see why she would have severely turned in hocks when her relatives do not. Oh, and she is FAT.
     
  17. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    I guess the fact that she is fat means she got plenty eat in general...Lol. But I'm wondering if she didn't get enough of the mineral rich grain or minerals they may have fed. (If they gave any.)