Breeding questions-LaMancha goats

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by Ariel301, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. Ariel301

    Ariel301 Guest

    101
    Oct 12, 2009
    I purchased some LaMancha does at the end of April, and I have a French Alpine/Oberhasli cross buck. This is my first experience with breeding goats; one of our three does was pregnant when we got her and she had twins in early May, but the others had already kidded. From my research on them, they should start coming into heat in the fall. I have seen few obvious signs of heat from any of the does (Ebony-2 years old, Flora-8 years old, and Gracee-6 years old). The first of August, Gracee was acting really lovey towards me (she's usually sort of grumpy) and was rubbing on the fence that separates the does from the buck. The next day, Flora started being bucky for just a few minutes, flapping her tongue and whacking Grace in the side with her front leg the way our buck does to them. But after that one episode, I never saw that behavior from Flora again. Ebony doesn't like our buck at all; she just runs from him and cries if he shows interest in her. I put the buck in with them, but as he is really young, I don't know if he bred them. They didn't even seem too interested in standing still for him, but would run away when he tried to mount. That is the only possible heat signs I have seen from them, and it has been over a month without it happening again. The buck is in the pen with them still. He is six months old now, and definitely showing a lot of interest in mating--he won't leave them alone! But I wonder a little if he has actually been able to breed them, since he's not as tall as they are, and they just don't want to stand still. Gracee has been a lot more friendly and wanting to be petted, which is not normal for her. If they are pregnant, they are no more than a month in. I can't afford to have them blood tested right now, since my husband and I are both out of work.

    I don't see how I could have bought three does that all have silent heats. I'm not even entirely certain that they were in heat in September, because they wouldn't stand for the buck when I was watching them. But he may have bred them when I wasn't looking. What do you guys think?

    I also have a five month old LaMancha doeling that has not come into heat yet. Is that normal? When should I expect her to be in heat? I don't want to breed her until she grows some more, but I'm just curious about when she'll be ready. She's also very small--she and her brother are both about 30-40 pounds. I've looked at pictures of other kids the same age and they are bigger. A friend of mine who raises Nubians says that her kids are not growing right this year, and they are all smaller than they should be; she is not sure why. Is 'Bonnie' a normal size for her age, and being a twin? She's no more than 24 inches tall either. Her mother is fairly large and we don't know about the sire; this was an accidental mating before we bought them.
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    first off Welcome

    As to your does being bred or not.....sometimes the buck breeds them and you never know a thing other times they take longer between heats. -- you might try separating them again and then only introducing him daily to see who maybe interested.

    Has he started to pee on himself?

    Is your 5 month old in with the other goats? because she certainly will go into heat if she hasnt already and if you are missing heats then she could have been bred easily already.

    I see the most strong heats even in my nigerians after September so you may see stronger heats coming up.
     

  3. Ariel301

    Ariel301 Guest

    101
    Oct 12, 2009
    I will try separating the buck again for a while then, and see what happens. He does pee all over himself, but he doesn't have a smell at all like I always hear bucks have. He is the first buck I have ever owned. If he's not getting the job done, I do have access to a friend's Nubian buck that is older. It doesn't matter too much what kind all the kids are next spring, because they're all going for meat. I just want to get the does bred so I can milk them.

    The only signs of heat I saw from the older two does was the first of September. So, if they were still open, they should have come into heat again by early October, and they didn't that I could see. Ebony, our younger doe, has never shown any signs of heat at all, but she's a strange goat anyway so it doesn't surprise me.

    The doeling and her brother (wethered) are in their own pen away from the rest because their mother won't wean them. If she sees them at all, she screams at them and throws herself at the fence trying to get to them and nurse them. I don't want to breed Bonnie yet because I'm worried about her small size. I have been told that they can start going into heat as early as two months, and she's now five months without any sign of heat, so I just want to make sure she's not abnormal. Is 35-ish pounds undersized for a 5 month old LaMancha doeling that was a twin? Her brother is not much bigger. Both were about 5 pounds at birth, smaller than our buck was. (but he was a big single)

    I found another website that said you can check does for pregnancy as early as two weeks after breeding by gently tapping on their underside in front of the udder. It says if it feels hard, they are pregnant, and if not, they are not. Well, I tried it, but I don't know. Gracee felt hard, but she also had a very full stomach so I may have been feeling that. Flora felt soft, but she's really fat and squishy all over anyway. Ebony is ticklish and would not stand still. Anyone on here use this method at all? Does it really work? I was skeptical when I heard it.
     
  4. Gumtree

    Gumtree Lurking Aussie

    585
    Aug 15, 2009
    S.E. Qld Australia
    I've found that later on in the pregnancy that you can feel the kids if you lift up just in front of the udder...I've felt legs late in the pregnancy but i can't tell you how quickly you can detect them....
    tho someone else will probably know :)
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I have never tried that method so I dont know it it works or not.

    Your girl sounds like she is stunted for some reason and it could be because of the inbreeding you mentioned. Or she is a spurter -meaning she grows in spurts

    Glad to hear she is in a separate pen with her brother :thumb: I wasnt sure so i had to ask.
     
  6. Ariel301

    Ariel301 Guest

    101
    Oct 12, 2009
    Stacy-Bonnie is not inbred as far as I know. Her dam got into the dairy farm's buck pen and was accidentally bred that way before we got her. The previous owner knew her due date, but just did not know which buck was the sire. None of them were related to the doe that got bred, and the doe has no inbreeding in her pedigree. She's got top-of-the-line bloodlines for a LaMancha, and is a pretty good sized doe at around 130 pounds. None of the goats we considered at this farm had any inbreeding, so I don't think it was an inbred buck either.

    I mentioned her slow growth to a friend who raises Nubians a few miles away, and she told me that none of her kids are growing right this year. I don't think it's related, since her goats and mine never have any contact (If I've been near her animals, I change clothes and take a shower before handling mine--just to be safe), but it's just strange. She's a cute little doe though.
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    lack of sleep due to studying causes me to read things wrong -- sorry about that.

    I would have a fecal run if you can to see if she has worms or cocci. THat can stunt their growth.

    but some lines just grow much slower then others.
     
  8. Ariel301

    Ariel301 Guest

    101
    Oct 12, 2009
    Thanks Stacy. I'll check for the worms. Hahaha I was reading back through my own post trying to figure out where I had said that the doeling was inbred because I thought I had typed something wrong due to lack of sleep also! I'm hoping she didn't get bred already; she's so little!

    As for the does, I found out that Flora at least was not pregnant. My husband went out to feed them before I woke up, and when I got up he told me that Flora was acting strange--she was yelling a lot, and he kept giving her more hay thinking she was still hungry lol. I expect begging for seconds from Ebony, but Flora's usually quiet. I went out to see, and she is definitely in heat. I put the buck in with her and she got bred twice, so hopefully we've got kids on the way now. Gracee's not showing any signs of heat again, so I think she's already pregnant. She is acting more sweet and lovey than she used to; she's always been sort of cranky and would hide from me if she knew I wanted to catch her, and now she rubs all over me licking my arms.
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    the change in personality and the licking is common for does who are pregnant so thats good for you
     
  10. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Sounds like you'll be seeing babies arrive from February to mid March....behavoir changes usually come with being preggy :greengrin:

    Your 5 month old likely has had her first heat without notice.....My Angel had her first heat at 4 months old with no signs to me....other than the accidental breeding at that time :sigh: All was well though as she was very big for her age.
     
  11. CrossCreekTX

    CrossCreekTX New Member

    356
    Aug 10, 2009
    Central East Texas
    My sr La Mancha doe kidded about May 1st. One doeling is probably 40 pounds and the other about 30-35. Mom kidded shortly after I brought her home, and she was pretty thin. They are starting to grow now. Summer was terribly hot and it is only now cooling down. The Nubian I got last yr didn't show much growth till the temps dropped either. She is a good size now.

    I'm planning to breed the larger doeling after Dec 1 and the smaller one no sooner than Jan 1 and I don't mind if she doesn't get bred till next yr.

    I've noticed sometimes the does have "almost heats" before going into full heat a month or 2 later. Like my daughter who had PMS symptoms monthly for a couple of yrs before starting the real thing.
     
  12. Ariel301

    Ariel301 Guest

    101
    Oct 12, 2009
    We have had a really hot summer, with temperatures over 100 nearly every day for three months, so that may be part of the problem. The does quit producing much milk during the summer too; people around here tell me that's normal for their goats. I am starting to notice that the kids from this year are growing quicker now with cooler temperatures. I just hope that little girl has not been bred at her size; we'll just have to wait and see. I also dewormed her.

    Flora has been bred at least three times during this heat, so hopefully this one takes. Gracee still doesn't show any signs of heat, and it's been six weeks now since she was bred. Ebony doesn't ever show any signs of being in heat...but she's sold so I'm not too worried about her.

    Another question--is it normal for them to act sort of...'off'...after coming out of heat or being bred? Flora is panting like she's too hot (it's only 80 degrees and she has shade in her pen) and just looks uncomfortable, and she's really nervous about having her hind end touched, like it may be sore...but she's eating and drinking and her temperature is normal so I don't think she is sick. I hope not since I don't have the money for more vet bills right now. I still owe a few hundred dollars on our horse that died in August...
     
  13. CrossCreekTX

    CrossCreekTX New Member

    356
    Aug 10, 2009
    Central East Texas
    My Sr doe acted a little that way after being bred. The other LaMancha acts sleeeeepy. Nearly every time I see her she is catching a few zzzzzs. The Nubian is her usual scaliwag self. Pretty sure all three are bred.