Breeding Up or Buying the Best

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Oliveoil, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. AndersonRanch

    AndersonRanch Well-Known Member

    99
    Oct 17, 2020
    California
    Now sires defiantly get the best you can afford! If you are trying to improve your herd this will be the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to get up to what you are wanting. That is something I have been dead set on and will always be set on.
    For me every doe I have out there has qualities besides physical qualities that I am wanting in my herd. Hardy, parasite resistance, good attentive mothers, high ADG without pouring feed to them, good hooves that I don’t have to trim but once a year. I would rather keep a doe kid that I have spent years breeding for those other qualities then sell everything off and go for just the physical qualities and gamble on the other things that I find important. I have really reached the point where I’m not buying does any more and if I do then they have to be more then just high quality and at a good enough deal that if she ends up being less then I want I can make my money back after her first kidding and the feed I put into her to find out she’s not what I really wanted after all.
     
  2. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Start with good goats, don't try to breed up mineral deficient, scrawny, poorly built goats because it's not worth it. But breed to improve the average ones.
     
    alwaystj9 and Iluvlilly! like this.

  3. Goatzrule

    Goatzrule Well-Known Member

    Feb 7, 2013
    New England
    Sires dont apply. Buy the best sire that you can. If you cant afford to get something nice then do driveway breedings until you can.
    We are at a time where there is an incredible amount of nice bucks out there. Too nice of animals for some to go to craigslist and trade buck kids with the farm that's the cutest.
     
  4. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Breed up! When I decided to go into goats. I attended Langston University and took the Meat Course over the Dairy Goat course. After learning all I could..I had to decide what to go with. I learned.with Kiko x BoerBuck. And 3 pairs of does..each commercial boer, Spanish, and bought full blood myotonic buck & does. Through years of trial & error..tears & laughter..trolling in TGS. Reading, studying, each person's ways of their herds. I finally felt comfy in selling most my mixes and get high quality.100%full blood boers. I did get the best bloodlines I could afford for my bucks. I bought their dams with them. Then asked several members for info on bloodlines and colors. I bought some full blood does. So every kid on my property will be registered. Some will be for.4H..Ffa..others for jackpots..and some for breeding.
    I guess it takes me awhile to learn. I had to study the confirmation and learn how to.improve on quality...rather than afford it. I have bloodlines from some of the greats..but now I'm mixing it with.other improved bloodlines. So Im hoping to do 1/2 as well as many on TGS. This is my 5th year..1st for my full blood birthing. It's going to be " like a box of chocolates" gonna wait and see! Lol
     
  5. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I think a lot of it will depend on the initial interest - meat, dairy, or showing.
    Starting out, I would learn as much as you are able, and try to find the best quality you can within your budget. BUT.... don't break the bank! Get a set number of does and a buck, and get your feet in the water to make sure it's what you want. Then decide where you want to go from there.
    We got 2 commercial cross meat does back in 2010 with the idea of having a couple of pets and raising babies for meat.
    Well we decided quickly we were not eating our babies lol.
    My kids joined 4H in 2011, and that became our goal - raising goats the kids can show.
    We currently have 100% ABGA registered goats, are they big fancy grand champions? No, but they have done okay in ABGA shows, however, our focus is still county fair shows.
    We started into FB Boer goats in 2012, 2 does. Only got kids out of 1 of them, but she set the mold for our FB herd. We sold her after she weaned her 2015 kids but still have her 2015 daughter, and a 2016 grand daughter, as well as 3 grand daughters out of 8 does.
    So I am a huge fan of breeding up! Buying the best buck you can afford/find, and just trying to improve each year. There is such a reward in breeding up and the accomplishments you can achieve.
    We just sold off the last of our % goats this summer. Those kids went back to the 3rd doe we ever bought. We happened to keep 1 of her daughters, then kept 1 grand daughter and she set the mold for really nice % kids. It was very hard to sell out of that family.
     
  6. We don't show really. But we are interested in milk. We started out with good does, decided we wanted to breed nice quality does. So I sold off the ones that didn't qualify. I chose not to buy the absolute most best does. Mostly because of budget, but I also wanted to create my own lines. I liked the challenge. All my does are very nice does, not amazing, but they milk wonderfully and have great udders that need slight improvements and don't have serious conformation faults.

    I do agree about buying the best bucks you can since they have more influence on your herd.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  7. HMNS

    HMNS Active Member

    168
    Jul 15, 2019
    Brown County, Ohio
    Wow...you are definitely doing something right. Your 2015's weren't bad but, your 2020's look really great!! : )
     
  8. alwaystj9

    alwaystj9 Active Member

    114
    Apr 10, 2019
    Zachary, Louisiana
    On this topic, I just ran across a sweet new buckling, excellent Nigerian lines, great farm and family, for sale....and I want to change out bucks for next year. Despite my desire to use the best buck and improve, improve, improve....I just cannot justify spending $850 for a buckling. Maybe if I ran a purebred or registered herd or if I had or produced show stock, but not for a mixed mini herd. Did I make the right decision? I typically spend $250 - $400 per buck and use them for 2 years. Is the market that much higher than it was 2 years ago?
     
    Iluvlilly! and Moers kiko boars like this.
  9. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Some questions only you can answer. Depends on what you want..and what you can afford. That's the great thing about goats..there are several avenues to choose from. And you can do more than 1 way at a time.
    One nice thing about buying a higher cost of goat. If you take care of them..they should hold their value. Or their offspring would bring in more $$ also. Just another option.
     
    Goatzrule, GoofyGoat and Iluvlilly! like this.
  10. GoofyGoat

    GoofyGoat Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2018
    TEXAS
    I'm right there with you. For a homestead goat, get the best you can to improve your line ...I believe some of the prices right now are due to the city folks trying to get out of the covid factory's and try country life because it's trendy....in time they'll be selling them for a song and running back to the cities....it's happening here to a point already. Panic buying bring up prices, think about the price of hand sanitizer what used to be a dollar is now three....

    Off the point...how did you hold up with the hurricane...is all well?
     
  11. Caileigh Jane Smith

    Caileigh Jane Smith Active Member

    151
    Dec 1, 2019
    Missouri, USA
    I have really enjoyed reading all of the comments on this thread! Going into my second year of goat breeding, I have definitely learned a lot. One thing is, that I will only buy from proven tested herds from here on out. My brush with CAE confirmed to me that I really just don't want to mess with that. And around here, the tested herds tend to also be the registered show -type herds, so the price tags are higher. :(
    But also, I've learned that there are qualities I value that go beyond just conformation, registerability, show ring performance etc. I have one doe who would never win any prizes in the show ring, but she puts a lot of milk in the bucket, has a great mind, is very savvy, is not loud or demanding, and is a great mom. My other doe's conformation is much nicer, and she comes from registered stock, and she has a nicer udder, but lacks in those other areas I mentioned above. So, I am planning to cross breed between the kids from the two of them, so hopefully I can create some that have the good qualities from both of the mothers. But I would have never known what I was looking for unless I had just started with what I had, and figured it out as I went along. So I'm really glad that I didn't drop $500 on a really nice doeling, otherwise, I would have been constantly freaked out that I was going to do something wrong and kill it, and wouldn't have felt free to decide what I like and don't like on my own. I knew going in that I probably wouldn't be keeping the buckling that I bought last year long-term. I picked him because I felt that he was the nicest I could find with the knowledge I had at the time, and when I know it's time to move on from him, I will take all of the knowledge I have acquired since buying him, and apply that to finding another buck that will enhance the qualities I'm looking for.
     
    HMNS, Iluvlilly! and GoofyGoat like this.
  12. alwaystj9

    alwaystj9 Active Member

    114
    Apr 10, 2019
    Zachary, Louisiana
    I just don't think I could raise prices enough on offspring unless I move to registered stock. I have always avoided the registered market. That buckling's a tempting little beauty, though, and not related to my herd which is a plus. After 30 years, my goats seem to be related to everything around. That was the original reason I started paying more for better bucks: I could not get quality outcrosses locally.
     
  13. alwaystj9

    alwaystj9 Active Member

    114
    Apr 10, 2019
    Zachary, Louisiana
    Post Hurricane Zeta: Everyone's (animals) are a bit jumpy due to the wind but I only lost the top of one tree. This year I was on one side or another of every hurricane and lost a few treetops and my buck pen fence. Hope my luck holds --- lots of Louisiana is a mess.
     
    Moers kiko boars and Iluvlilly! like this.
  14. IF I wasn't registered and/or showed etc...I most likely would not spend that much on a buck even if he is stellar. But that's my own stance. I bet you still could find an absolutely great buck for $400 (which seems the standard price around here unless lots of accolades behind/in front of them). But like it's said, only you can answer. I agree that you can only go so high in price with unregistered.
     
  15. TexasGoatMan

    TexasGoatMan Well-Known Member

    593
    Jul 3, 2015
    Dekalb, Texas
    For the most part, When a first time buyer starts out and buys a goat, most folks are just wanting a goat or two. Not really thinking about getting into breeding and raising goats. Just something for the kids or grand kids to play with and eat a few weeds. So least expensive seems to be the case unless you are buying for a show animal for FFA and or like activities. Then after keeping goats a while you either like them and want to continue keeping goats or you sell out and get out. If staying, Now is when most folks start thinking about improving the quality of their herd. As for my self, I purchased a nice non-registered doe and enjoyed her. Then I decided that I wanted better registered animals. I bought 2 very nice doelings.They turned out to be good animals and I was satisfied with them. That was several years ago and I have been gradually trying to improve my herd. I now own a really great billy and he looks the part and have recently purchase an extremely well bred doe with some old bloodlines and She will be bred to a exceptionally good billy. This cross is my expectation for a second billy and some new bloodlines to work with in the does I already have. So in hind site I would encourage a buyer to consider what their desired goals are and if keepig and breeding goats then by all means purchase the best you can afford.
     
    HMNS, Iluvlilly! and Moers kiko boars like this.
  16. Calistar

    Calistar Well-Known Member

    I always buy the best I can afford. Sometimes more than what I can comfortably afford :p I figure the breeders have put years, sometimes decades into getting their herd to the point it's at. If I buy one of their goats, I've skipped that far ahead! I'd rather build off of quality than start at the bottom and sink money and time into clawing my way to the top.

    Even my more casual pursuits (like my 3 pet sheep) I buy quality registered animals. I'd rather spend the money upfront on potential that I don't use than buy an unregistered or inferior animal that I'm not going to be happy with or that I'm going to have to upgrade later. Go big or go home, I guess....just don't ask how much I've spent on new goats this year! :p
     
  17. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    If everyone always buys the best you lose bloodlines.
    Bloodlines wear out eventually.

    Incrossing is good for showing, until it's not.
    Out crossing is good for the goats.
     
  18. Gooseberry Creek

    Gooseberry Creek Member

    59
    Jun 3, 2020
    Florida
    I am just starting out. We had dairy goats when I was growing up but they werent all mine- they were my moms even though I did a lot of care with them etc. I learned from that experience that when I got my own herd someday, that I would make sure they all came from good milking lines.
    While its not a guarantee, I think its a better place to start. Then put in the work to make it better.
    Our area doesn't have a lot of breeders with documented milk lines for Nigerian Dwarfs or Lamanchas so I had to travel a few hours or have goats transported to me. So if I'm gonna do all that I might as well get registered stock and pay for the best I can afford which I'm sure isnt as much as what some people have lol.
    When I was first looking around in my area, people literally lied about what they had. They would say they were pure or registered but then if you did some checking or actually went to see these goats many did not look pure at all, or looked sickly, or you could find no evidence of documentation. Its the wild west for goats around here lol, so I mainly stuck with only reputable breeders.
     
  19. Oliveoil

    Oliveoil Well-Known Member

    243
    Sep 3, 2019
    Wisconsin
    That is definitely true. Something I saw online said that yes, you might get lucky and find a great deal on a great goat, a diamond in the rough type of goat that might not look like much initially, but more likely is you will buy this animal, be burned, and it would have saved you time, money, and heartache to buy a quality goat from a reputable breeder in the first place.
     
    Gooseberry Creek likes this.
  20. Gooseberry Creek

    Gooseberry Creek Member

    59
    Jun 3, 2020
    Florida
    True! I think if one is just wanting a cute pet, the goals will be different than if one is trying to cobble together a good milking or meat line from scratch.
    I love rescue animals. People dump cats out here all the time because we are right at the edge of a large city. We also have dogs and the random rooster dumped as well.
    We give many homeless animals a good home and lots of love but they wont be in my milking herd lol.
     
    goatblessings likes this.