Breeding

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by magilacudy, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. magilacudy

    magilacudy New Member

    168
    Mar 18, 2009
    Ontario
    I was always under the impression that you should not breed within the family, but I've been doing some reading and was shocked to find that many people do breed father/daughter....brother/sister. I've read they do this to bring out the best qualities of a certain goat. I wanted to know your thoughts on this and the pros and cons. Maybe I'm just naive but I would have never thought this was okay or safe to do.
     
  2. Lawanda

    Lawanda New Member

    694
    Jun 11, 2009
    West Virginia
    Eww, I wouldn't think so either, but I know nothing!
     

  3. Tarheel Acres

    Tarheel Acres New Member

    35
    Aug 26, 2009
    I have heard of people doing it as well, but you are asking for trouble. It is true, that it would bring out some of the "good qualities" in their offspring. BUT, it will also emphasize some "bad qualities". On top of that, you are asking for birth defects, etc. I would stay way away. Uncle/Niece may be acceptable, but I wouldn't even do that.
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    It is a huge risk... in breeding that close.....I wouldn't do it personally... but yes... some do breed that way.....and you risk... major genetic problems .... :help:
     
  5. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    There is a very fine line between inbreeding and linebreeding

    I will work with similar pedigrees- and try to keep some of the same animals in my top side of the pedigree as the bottom when I breed. Some of the best goats in the country are very heavily linebred, and I actually have two that are very heavily linebred including a MCH buck who is a father/daughter breeding, and a platinum milker who is fabulous all the way around who is a mother/son AND father/daughter breeding!
    But like is stated above, you can emphasize the good qualities OR you can emphasize the bad- any breeding is a gamble, but some of the most consistent results in quality come from tight linebreedings
     
  6. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    I have heard of this many times, but not as much in goats. I have heard it is called line breeding when the cross was a success or inbreeding when the cross was a failier. Either way I see it as inbreeding.

    I personally wouldn't come any closer than breeding cousins or possibly grand dam/sire to grand son/daughter, but that would have to be if I was sure this was to be an extremely high quality cross while knowing the risks involved and the flaws that will be enhanced. I don't like in/line breeding at all. I've seen it succeed and fail. :shrug:

    I have a horse that was by a breeding of daughter to father and she is..well...lets say...not the brightest star in the sky, but she's built well and has produced some NICE foals that luckily have never inherited her way of thinking.
     
  7. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Linebreeding when it brings out the "spectacular" qualities in the offspring.
    Inbreeding when it doesn't

    I personally won't do sire/daughter or dam/son or brother/sister, BUT when I bought my first registered doe, I just wanted a true "dairy" breed, then the same breeder also had some kids born so I was back and forth on wether I wanted to get a reg. buckling, when I finally decided, the one I chose was taken so I bought Chief, not realizing at the time that he is my does nephew.....now I have been told that they are far enough apart in blood that I can breed them and have no problems BUT I have yet to do it, my does first kidding here with me resulted in twin does to my pygmy buck and her second I paid a breeding fee and she had a single doe. This fall will be the first time they are bred and then once the kids are born and do well, I will decide wether they will be registered and sold as registered nigi's and if they aren't what I hope they are then they'll be sold as unregistered pets.
     
  8. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    There is linebreeding in just about every pedigree. Some further than others, but some of the best lines and animals out there were produced from linebreeding. It is a gamble to an extent yes to linebreed. The bigger a gamble, the closer the crossing. I would never breed full siblings together. I've only owned one doe who was a Father/Daughter crossing. Unfortunately she had poor feet, but otherwise she was extremely correct and had a fabulous udder. I have yet to actually do a linebreeding but this year we are going to do our firsts. Ours are more like Aunt/Nephew though so they're not as close.

    If you do choose to do it, you should start with animals who don't have major flaws of any nature and have several traits that you want to see in the offspring.
     
  9. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Fascinating stuff. I have a couple does out there who's sire was heavily linebred both top & bottom.
    The kids were awesome, had never seen such vigorous kids.
    To us humans, line or inbreeding sounds really gross. But it can work if you know what you want.
    On the other hand, now this is just off the top of my head & dont really know for sure but even regular breeding you are going to have great kids & some not so great kids.
    I have a pair of sisters who are always surprising me with their offspring. A great buck with great pedigree does not guarentee greatness.
    We aim for the best but genetics have a bajillion twists & turns.
    I'd love to pick someone's brain about this.
    Except her first kidding, my Nubian has always been bred to a Boer. She has always done well. But last year something went haywire. We had to pull a dead buckling and two others eventually died, one at 3 days the other at 3 weeks. I only have one doe left from that kidding.
    Somehow I believe that the genetics for this particular buck just didnt go well with her.
    There was no change in management at all.
    What Im saying is that it's a crapshoot, shoot your best shot. :wink:
     
  10. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    I have it in both my rabbit pedigree's and my dairy pedigrees. and when done right, you can get amazing stuff!!
     
  11. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I would never do mother to son brother to sister etc, anything that close you're asking for trouble. though i did have a friend who sis this with her lamanchas, she ended up getting two doe kids, one was nice the other had an extra teat. Some people say when it works its line breeding and when it doesnt its in breeding, but i dont agree, because it can still work with one kid in the breeding ond not work in the other kid from that same breeding, yet its the same breeding.
    I found a really good artical about line breeding and in breeding
    Heres the original artical
    http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/ ... _Hall.html


    There is someother stuff about color and horn genetics ar the top, you will have to scroll down a little bit to find the charts.

    Hope this helps, i find it fascinating.
    beth
     
  12. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I have done some heavy line breeding myself over the last few years. I used a buck named buster, (he can be seen on my website) As well as a buck named Apex (also on my website) Their dams were half sisters. Some of the best kids i have ever had were my apex daughters whos dams were out of my buster daughters. A close line breeding on a buck named Catalyst who were boths bucks dams sire.
    After i used both of those bucks i used a totally unrelated buck as far as the immidiate peigree. If you go back about ten generations in each bucks pedigrees you start finding similar animals.
    So far i havnt had any problems. I have deifnatly had animals that were better then others.
    But playing with genetics is a crapshoot no matter how closely animals are related.
    beth
     
  13. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    So far I dont feel good enough with knowning traits and what is good and bad (but I am learning) so I stick with totally unrelated goats. I feel that if the goats are too related then something can go wacky wrong and I would hate to loose a breeding since I have only such a small "farm" and I need every kid born.
     
  14. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    well. when I was a child, we had a goat... (yeah, remarkable huh???) who had a kid (also remarkable huh?) and accidentally... the kid Clyde bred the mother, Enya.

    Well to cut a long story short, Enya had twins, but we children were told that she only had 1 kid. But we all knew there was something drastically wrong with the 2nd kid and they had to kill it. Like. Drastically wrong.

    So yeah... only "inbreed" when only good traits!!!

    LW