Buck help please

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Devin, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. Devin

    Devin New Member

    Feb 6, 2011
    Welp, its official. Pepper has entered rut. I guess that is a good thing, but when your cute little buckling decides he is a "man" and tries to pee all over you he ceases to be so cute. :( :slapfloor:

    The last couple times I have entered his pen he has tried to "impress" me with dominate behavior, head pushing, and rearing on hind legs. He is not trying to hurt me, I don't feel. It seems more like he views me as a doe he wants to domiate and impress. He has not been rough or mean, just irritating! He also tries to rub all over me, and today he sprayed pee at me!

    I have not "let" him get away with this behavior, but I need help in knowing how to handle it, and know if what I have done to handle it is appropriate, if that makes sense.

    Up until today, I have slapped his nose. (only been going on for about a week) sometimes it takes several slaps to get his attention and make him start thinking that maybe he should change his behavior. But today that didn't even cut it (I did just start my period so that might have something to do with the upscaled behavior)

    Today, after he sprayed pee at me and was not listening to the slap on his nose, I grabed his legs out from under him and laid him on the ground and kept him there until he was still. That seemed to make him think, but not enough. Once he was up he stood there, and seemed to think, but then tried to push at me again. So I laid him down again, and for a longer period of time. Once I let him up he was being his nice lovely sweet self and was submissive and quiet. Then I left.

    He is also much more likely to behave like this while in his pen, I have yet to see this behavior when I let him out to browse the woods by our house.

    Did I handle this correctly, and what could I have done differently? I don't want him to feel he has to be defensive when I enter his pen, but I also don't want to have to be defensive when I enter his pen. We left it on a good note, I pet him while he was being good then left.

    This buckling is not even 8 months old yet. He is already 100 pounds or more. Judging from his daddy, he could easily reach 220+. He has always been very sweet up until a week ago, and even at that he isn't trying to hurt me. I just don't want a buck that is aggressive at 220 pounds!!! So, please help me know how to handle his advances lol!
  2. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I've heard of people carrying water guns with them you know the super soaker kind that REALLY get their attention, spray and tell him NO!
    If that doesn't work the only thing that comes to mind might be a cattle prod. He needs to respect you and the space between you. I have a friend that uses the prod and has no problems, of course once they know what it does she says all she has to do is show them and they straighten up.

  3. Burns Branch Boers

    Burns Branch Boers New Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    North Texas
    Our buckling (9 months) has gone into his first rut as well. He has been pretty mild I think--and not very aggressive in behavior. There have been one or two times he has "head pressed" me as I am leaving or entering the pen. This is no problem but I realize one wrong move from me could escalate the aggressive tendancies. I chose to avoid him duirng feeding times--as this is the only time I have been witness to this behavior--other times of the day he is respectful and acts very sweet. I hung feeders so that I can pour the feed into him and his wether buddy over the fence. Anyother times coming and going is not a problem.

    Can you avoid him while he is in rut? If he is otherwise sweet and respectful it may be best just to minimize the contact during rut, as I have heard they can be dangerous (even the sweeties--it is just nature)
  4. Devin

    Devin New Member

    Feb 6, 2011
    Yes, I can avoid him, I have made everything easy to do over the fence for when I am gone and others are taking care of him. However, I don't want to have to avoid him :( Can't they learn to be repectful even during rut?
  5. Riot_My_Love

    Riot_My_Love New Member

    I carry a bb gun. You don't have to shoot them, but in their general direction. Now my goats scatter when I shake the gun to make noise.
    I have shot an aggressive buck. He was over the top aggressive - needless to say he's gone to a new home so he can no longer hurt me. The pellets don't hurt at long range. I've be shot before. (Idiot friends)
  6. Devin

    Devin New Member

    Feb 6, 2011
    I'd be scared of hitting him in the eye with a BB gun :laugh: I am liking the water gun idea. I'd rather not have to get so serious as a cattle prod, but he does seem to have a stubbourn streak! :hair: I wonder if a dressage whip would be enough?
  7. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I'm not big on whips myself, but it might do the trick. You'd have to smack it with him so he knows what it's about :(
    I'd go with a super soaker and blast him, get one that's nice and bright so after a couple of times and he sees you with it, it will certainly get his attention :)
  8. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Laying him on the ground was the right thing to do. You might want to invest in a cattle prod for your own safety.
    I only used it a couple times on a young buck who thought who knows what he thought but when he got too close I held out that hot shot (cattle prod) at chest height & let him walk into it. He quickly learned to stay back.
  9. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    My friends vet told her to stay away from a big buck when she is "in season" lol. He said they can sense that something is different and it may cause an otherwise nice boy to use dominant behavior.
  10. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    Jul 25, 2010

    I would worry about close range, where they would penetrate. What about the airsoft guns with the plastic pellets? My son was target shooting cans and wanted to do an egg, and it didn't even penetrate. I was against it when he first got it b/c it looked like a bb gun (and he is only 9) and my husband volunteered to be shot to prove it was harmless - it left a small bruise. I heard from my neighbor that the competition ones are more like paintball type bruises.

    Funny story about the bb gun pellets though. We have a squirrel (well multiple squirrels now, apparently they put out some scent that acts as a welcome mat) that will not stay out of our house. (and wake us up at 3 am rolling nuts around the walls and chewing) We have blocked the holes with metal sheeting on multiple occasions and they chew a new hole next to it. So I got a bb gun that had the regular bb barrel, and also a 22 barrel. We started out with the bb pellets, my husband shot the squirrel several times, and it just shook it off and walked away. Hubby put the 22 barrel on and shot it a couple days later and this time it died. When he examined it, he found 4 bb pellets in the squirrel, and it was still running around for several days after being shot, so I guess they aren't all that bad. I don't think i'd shoot my goat with it though.
  11. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    i used vinegar in a spray bottle
  12. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    A slap on the nose might just trigger more of this very natural behaviour. Any pain would for sure trigger the fighting activity.

    In a full flock, the bucks try their strength on one another every day, and especially during the heat period in the autumn.

    I would suspect he might perhaps be a little bored? Could you take him for walks, or give him twigs and branches to gnaw? Something for his brain to work with, a "cross-word for goats"?

    All my bucks have been very kind, but if a buck is getting "teenager", and starts to think of "marriage", there is a very close connection between actually "marrying" and "to fight anogher buck". Pain or similar sensations will strengthen this tendency.

    Possibly you could try to spray very gently with a water gun or perhaps some simpler plastic bottle on him, but only if you find no other, more peaceful, way. All goats I have met hate water! :tears:

    My bucks have very seldom tried to dominate their does, only other bucks. And the does likewise, dominating other does, not the bucks. If a goat wants to impress on the other gender, it is natural to show his/her beauty and ability to jump, dance, and climb.

    So, do teach him that the stronger of you is the most gentle and kind! Don't teach him that the stronger hits the smaller on the nose, or elsewhere! You want him to be kind also to those who are smaller than he is, I belive?

    To lay him down is very dominant. I have had to do such only some times, and then with much smaller kids, some 15 kilogrammes. A softer thing to do is to embrace him, and lift him up, as long as you can, to sort of tell him "My little buckling, my sweet doll, I am SOOO much stronger, I can lift you from the ground!" (At least half of you.)

    Another rather easy thing to do, well understood you have good clothes for going close to the cute stinker, is to grab his beard, and have a very close look into his eyes. Maybe kiss him on the nose, they usually dislike a wet human kiss on their fine noses. Rub gently on the nose, so he can feel your smell, and understand who is so strong as to grab his beard and hold it.

    Before the problem starts, you may be very active with nice things, like gently rubbing his shoulder with your flat hand. This is called Smell Stamping, (I think it translates to), and means, translated to English: "We exchange smell, so that everyone who meets either of us will know that we are friends, and belong to the same flock." This for the next time!

    And, please forgive a stranger: What is a "Cattle prod"? :scratch: A "bb gun"? :scratch:
  13. Devin

    Devin New Member

    Feb 6, 2011
    Please know that I don't just hit him! LOL! I am very kind to my little guy, and pet him all the time! Even though he is now stinky, he still gets attention!! LOL! I did try to redirect him, but he would not stop his behavior, that is when I slaped his nose and eventually laid him down.

    I would try the beard grab, but as of right now, he has not grown one yet. :laugh:

    He does get browse/leaves/sticks thrown in to him everyday. I do want to put some toys in there though. What kinds of things could I give him to play with?
  14. Rev144

    Rev144 New Member

    Jan 22, 2011
    You might try a rattle paddle. They have little bb's inside that make noise. I use mine to heard them around . If smacked with it one time, they are afraid of it the second time.
  15. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    Jan 14, 2011
    Ok this will sound crazy but do you ever watch him play with other boys? As they enter rut they will even mount each other. They will approach another buck kid and make a noise....eh-eh-eh-eh...the sound it really hard to type! They may even paw at another buck. He knows you are dominate but he's testing you too and believe me they know when you are cycling too! I have a kid that gets way to friendly with me and even jumped on my back (he's about 100 lbs) when I bent down to pet another kid. I made that sound at him and took a big threatening step at him. He bolted. He still knows I love him but if he gets carried away and I don't have a squirt bottle (I use that one too) I can use that as my back up. It was pretty funny. He seemed very confused but they understand their own language the best. I probably wouldn't try it with a full grown buck that you haven't raised because he might think of it as a challenge. Sometimes they can get a little crazed in the rut period. I have one buck who you wouldn't even realize was in the rut if it wasn't for his smell and his obvious appeal to the ladies :love: and then my other guy who I am careful not to turn my back on. Set boundaries early and hopefully he'll respect them even when he's 250 lbs.
  16. Goat Song

    Goat Song Senior Member who ain't so Senior

    May 4, 2011
    I think the water gun is your best bet. It gets the point across very quickly, yet it's harmless. They soon learn that bucky behavior towards humans results in getting wet.
  17. Devin

    Devin New Member

    Feb 6, 2011
    Well, I must have done something right, he is acting like a sweet baby now lol! if he starts it up again (and I am sure he will test it again at some point) then I will try the water gun idea.
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Cattle Prod is a stick looking thing...with forks at the end of it.. that is battery operated...you push on the button and touch it to the body of the animal...to give a jolt (electric current zap) .. it is used to get cattle to move through the cattle shoots.... to be able to give them their shots or worming ect... some cattle are very hard to move without them or the rattle paddles... :wink:

    A BB gun is... a pellet gun..that you pump up air ..within it by a handle... in order for it to fire... the ammunition is a very small round ball...you can pump it a couple of times and shoot an animal and it may just be a little sting and may not penetrate the skin...however...it is still dangerous....you see.. the more times you pump up the air ....example 6 times or so... it will penetrate the skin...... and the BB may remain in the skin...
  19. Trollmor

    Trollmor Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Goatless in Sweden
    Thanks, Toth boer goats! But an electric jolt, is that really something we want innocent friendly animals to suffer? Here in Northern Europe, such things are looked upon with disgust, when people get to know. So "BB gun" is what we call "air gun" ... And you aim at live creatures with it? Oh, dear, we DO live in different worlds! Here, in a case of a buck behaving oddly, we above all try to understand why, and adapt our own behaviour so he can understand and adapt.

    Devin, I have been thinking of your Sweet Baby. Could it be that some doe sent him "air mail" that she wanted him urgently? In the goat world there is no such thing as "next time", as you might know ... And stupid walls hindered him from fulfilling her wish, which was his law? ...
  20. PznIvyFarm

    PznIvyFarm New Member

    Jul 25, 2010

    Where do you find out this info? My buck was a bottle-baby, and he is very gentle (and not stinky hooray!) and is very good when i trim his hooves, or walk him, or do anything with him, but he isn't lovey-dovey like my girls - i just got him in July and want him to be friendlier, but he still seems skittish. Yesterday i had him out on a lead and was I was lying in the grass, and when he thought i wasn't paying attention he would approach me, but as soon as i'd move he would run away. Maybe if i try 'goat psychology' on him, I can make him friendlier toward us. I want him to be cuddly and seek out attention.