[Goat_Scout]

Sorry, I didn't have any time to update until now.

Last night, after a couple attempts to lock Rudy up somewhere for the night, I put him and Benji in our dog kennel, which is located in the chicken pasture (mistake number one).
Now, I have some wood pallets on the floor of the dog kennel (which we turned into the goats' mineral room a while ago), and one of those pallets was in the way of the door, but not more than an inch I think. I was still able to latch the door though, and I added a few zip ties to the bottom of it to close it more securely. I was confident that there was no way at ALL that they would get out of there (mistake number two). As you can probably tell by now, I was wrong.
When I locked them up in there, of course Melody and Sage (the two does in heat) were hanging around, wanting to get in with the bucks.

This morning, the kennel door was wide open and both bucks were out. With Melody. And all of the other goats. Thankfully, none of the other does were in heat, but I am so mad that Rudy got to Melody! I was really looking forward to knowing that she, for sure, had had no exposure to him, and was probably bred to 'lil Geoffrey.

But now, let's see,

Midge - bred to either Benji or Rudy (I'm guessing Rudy)
Annie - same as above
Sage - same as above
Melody - bred to Rudy, Benji or Geoffrey

It will be hard to tell whose kids are whose.

Today I put Rudy up for sale. He's just become too much for me to handle! There is one doe that I "need" - want - to breed him to (she's the main reason we got another buck, she is an amazing doe and I wanted purebred kids out of her without having to breed her to her own son) but if he sells before she comes into heat I'll just breed her to Benji (Mini-Lamancha). Either way, her kids won't be registrable because of the unregisterable bucks. (Next year I want to get reg. ones!)

Oh, and when I went out there this morning, Melody's behind was swollen and pink, and it had a little blood on it. I assumed it was just because of the many breedings.
But, I also noticed that Benji's belly was bloody too, which I ALSO assumed was because he was able to breed Melody a lot (mistake number three!). But, later today I saw that there is blood sprinkled all around the mineral area, too much for it to be Melody. I am thinking that Rudy gored poor little Benji with one of his horns when they were in the kennel together.
I tried to get a closer look at Benji's stomach, but he was stinky and not in the mood. I didn't see any cuts or anything though. It is a mystery! He is/was acting normal though, so that's good...

 

[Jessica84]

I don't blame you for putting him up for sale. You have done A LOT to try and keep him. I wonder though if the one you for sure want bred to him if you just stick in with him if that would cool his jets a bit? Is there anyone else that is still open?

 

[mariarose]

Hi, I think Buck is beautiful, I have never luted, and people here have given some great input.

The only thing I can add is an idea for keeping him from breeding whoever. One of my bucks, who is gorgeous, quite maneageable, normally extremely sweet, very healthy and hardy, is out of his mind in rut right now. He is climbing, jumping, bashing his way into or out of all my current fences. Right now he is in a small pen all by himself, and he is tethered inside that pen so he can't reach any of the fences. Also, no does can reach him, and no other bucks can reach him. No predators can reach him. He is not tangling himself. When a doe comes into heat that I want him to breed, then he is untethered. I don't keep him tethered for that!

I agree with everyone who says not to tether a goat. I just am at my wit's end. He is 2 now and just come into his own as the #1 buck on the farm. He did not learn this behaviour from the previous bucks, I've had him since he was 2 months old and taught him respectful behaviour. I don't do this lightly or casually. Poor guy!

 

[mariarose]

I used to be so cocky about how well my bucks behaved...

 

[Jessica84]

Breeding apron......what about a breeding apron? If you search on here someone who has a very rare breed of goats has one for her buck so she can keep them all together all the time. But that way you can just keep them together and take it off when you want the ones bred by him come into heat........that's if you want to adjust your management. I personally would just send him down the road, there are good well behaved bucks out there but there is that option maybe if you wanted to

 

[Goat_Scout]

I don't blame you for putting him up for sale. You have done A LOT to try and keep him. I wonder though if the one you for sure want bred to him if you just stick in with him if that would cool his jets a bit? Is there anyone else that is still open?

I want to thank you so much for all of your input! It has helped me immensely!

Right now we have three other does we are going to breed this year. A Lamancha (16 months old) and two Nubians in milk.
One of the Nubian does I'm probably going to breed to Geoffrey, and I'm not sure whether I want to breed Verity (Lamancha) to Geoffrey or Benji. She is due to cycle again in a week or so.

I put Rudy in with the does this morning while milking, and Rudy seemed really interested in my other open Nubian, Matilda - the one I really want bred to him. Matilda didn't like his method of flirting though (chasing her around rather aggressively and trying to mount her), but after a few minutes she stood still for him a couple times. To me she still doesn't seem in heat though. She is wagging her tail a little more than usual but at the same time keeping it down. Rudy is pacing the fence today.

 

[Goat_Scout]

@mariarose - Thank you for the reply! Yesterday I tethered him and he lived (didn't get tangled up!). It goes against the grain for me, but it worked well!

And as for the aprons... I actually bought two small ones a couple months ago. For Benji and Geoffrey. I really liked them until Benji started leaving his apron in different parts of the pasture. I tightened it a little, but to no avail. This morning he is in the chicken pasture with Rudy, and is wearing Geoffrey's apron (he lost his again, and I have yet to find it). I tightened it some more and will see if it stays on.

I thought about getting Rudy an apron, but 1) it takes a few weeks to ship here, and 2) they are expensive and I don't know whether or not he would keep it on! Although I think I will just go ahead and buy one for him.
If he is sold before it gets here, or if he won't keep it on, then it was not a waste to buy because Geoffrey will eventually need a bigger one...

 

[mariarose]

@Jessica84 I'm not sure if you are asking me about mating aprons (because your suggestion followed one of my comments), or the OP (because you want to help the OP)

If it was to me, and ONLY if is was to me, I am deeply and fundamentally opposed to the use of mating aprons. I don't want to reiterate my stance here on someone else's thread thread though, because I've objected elsewhere and should not keep kicking a dead horse on other goat owners decisions on their own threads.

If you were suggesting that it would be easy for me to replace my buck, no, it would not. In my price range, he represents a sizeable investment that I can not easily turn my back on. Since this is the first time I've had an issue with him, and breeding season is upon me, and he is (normally) a really sweet manageable guy, AND the most expensive animal I own, I can't just chuck him. He is not dangerous, just more singleminded in the pursuit of buckdom than I've ever met. But no one should have to deal with a dangerous buck, I agree.

And if you did not mean me (and you probably did not!) then forgive me and I'll bow out

 

[Jessica84]

@Jessica84 I'm not sure if you are asking me about mating aprons (because your suggestion followed one of my comments), or the OP (because you want to help the OP)

If it was to me, and ONLY if is was to me, I am deeply and fundamentally opposed to the use of mating aprons. I don't want to reiterate my stance here on someone else's thread thread though, because I've objected elsewhere and should not keep kicking a dead horse on other goat owners decisions on their own threads.

If you were suggesting that it would be easy for me to replace my buck, no, it would not. In my price range, he represents a sizeable investment that I can not easily turn my back on. Since this is the first time I've had an issue with him, and breeding season is upon me, and he is (normally) a really sweet manageable guy, AND the most expensive animal I own, I can't just chuck him. He is not dangerous, just more singleminded in the pursuit of buckdom than I've ever met. But no one should have to deal with a dangerous buck, I agree.

And if you did not mean me (and you probably did not!) then forgive me and I'll bow out

I did not but that's ok lol hey you know what I won't judge anyone on if they want or don't want to keep a animal. I am personally breaking my own rule right now with a buck I just purchased. He is also the most expensive goat here......no I take that back he is the most expensive animal on this place, more so then my bulls so when he attacked me sadly instead of shipping his behind out of here he now has a hotshot next to his gate to keep me safe and also to teach him this is not going to fly :/ so totally understand

 

[Damfino]

And as for the aprons... I actually bought two small ones a couple months ago. For Benji and Geoffrey. I really liked them until Benji started leaving his apron in different parts of the pasture...

I use buck aprons so I can let my boys socialize with the herd during the day. To be safe, I lock the boys up at night or when any of the girls I don't want bred are actively in heat, but the aprons prevent any "oopses" if a girl suddenly comes in during the day and I don't notice for a few hours. I think allowing the boys to mingle helps keep them gentle and sane.

However, I had trouble with mine losing their aprons for a while last year and tightening didn't help. What did help was I tied a piece of parachute cord from the apron strap to the collar so the apron couldn't slide back. They haven't lost an apron since.

 

[mariarose]

@Jessica84 I sure would not want to be in the position of being in danger because of a buck. I feel for you. My buck is sweet to me, but hormone crazy just now. Of course it is wise to always be aware of bucks. Is yours normally OK, or is he always adversarial?

@Damfino That sounds like a terrific use of the aprons. Using them as a precaution, but not to keep bucks in with girls who are in full heat. I completely agree about the socialization keeping things calm and balanced. I've seen this for a fact, as many months of the year our herd is all together. Thanks for the idea. And the paracord tip.

 

[Goat_Scout]

Yesterday one of my last three does came into heat. As a precaution I tied up Rudy in a pen so that he couldn't get to her (she would ONLY look at him, and I wanted her bred to Geoffrey!), and Benji (who is now following Rudy's bad example and jumping the chicken pasture fence ) I put his buck apron back on since he had got it off again. He's so small that the strap to tighten the apron was pretty long, so I just tied it to his collar, hoping that maybe, just maybe it'd stay on because of that. And it did!
@Damfino, I will replace it soon with parachute cord or something similar. That sounds like a better idea. Thanks!

 

[Northwoods-Farm]

Pack up Rudy and send him to me. He won't be jumping my fences and I've got a couple of does that wouldn't mind making his acquaintance.

 

[hboothe]

When we had cattle years ago we said, "if a cow will jump one fence, it will jump them all" and we sold the ones who jumped fence. That may not work for you, and it is an extreme measure. I would try this: get some electric fence netting (I personally prefer the Premier 1 Supplies products to the slightly cheaper stuff I bought from Amazon when I didn't know better), I think the stuff I buy is 42 inches tall. Put the girls out in the "electric" pasture, keep the boys as far away as is reasonably possible and contain them with the electric netting (even if the netting is very close to the perimeter fence you already have in place). Then, with a bucket of feed or a dish or something to entice them, get them to approach the fence (with less drive than some hot goat coochie). Hopefully, they'll get shocked a time or two and be "cowed" by the netting from now on (always keep in energized, though, because they will get into it if it's off for an extended period of time).

You might also put the electric netting up about 1 to 3 feet inside the fixed fence to discourage jumping the netting (no "landing zone" for the boys).

If you cannot entice the boys to try the fence you can grab them and put their nose to the fence so they get shocked. Not a pleasant task (I don't like to hurt the animals) but maybe a necessary step; until they get shocked a time or two, the electric netting is just a physical barrier and it's not designed to be a physical barrier, you need the shock(s) to get them afraid to get too close to it.

Since you have electric fences already, I'm sure you know to ground the fence charger well. However, I mention it here in case anyone comes along later, reads this, and tries electric fencing for the first time and doesn't know to ground the charger well.

I got my chargers from Amazon. They are Parmak brand, if I spelled that correctly. They have a 6 volt battery in them and a solar charge panel on top. Made in USA. They work very well. FYI.

HTH
YMMV
EIEIO

--HC

 

[Goat_Scout]

:update:

Four of our five does who were in heat August 19-23 didn't come back into heat when they were "supposed" to. Unfortunately though one of those was Midge (my Mini-Lamancha). :-/
The LSU vet is scheduled to come over here next week for calf dehornings and castrations, and so we will also have her perform Ultrasounds on all four of the goats who are supposedly bred.

Verity, my Lamancha, was the one that came back into heat. I again bred her to Geoffrey but I don't mind if she doesn't take this time either. We already probably have four FF does due in January, and I'll have my hands full training them!

When the dates for the does to come into heat rolled around, I kept Rudy tied/locked up, but other than that he has been in with the does full-time since late August. And he hasn't jumped the fence since. I am pretty happy with him now.

I have a few more questions. 1) Like it is with cows, if a doe is in with a buck all the time, will that doe react differently when she is in heat? I mean differently than if she was not in with a buck?
2) Vivian, our milk doe, decided about two weeks ago that she wanted to dry herself off (I think that was it, she barely gave me half a cup of milk after 24 hours' separation from her doeling ). So I haven't milked her for 2+ weeks. When would it be OK to let her kid in with her? When her udder is completely empty?

Thanks!

 

[Jessica84]

The only difference I see with mine is less girls fighting and screaming (but I think that's because their not humping each other)but the buck makes it totally noticeable when one is in heat.......is that what your asking thinking maybe you missed a heat?
2. I would wait till she is totally dried up. With mine they don't go back with moms till they are about 10-11 months old, that's weaning at 3 months then keeping them away while the buck is with the moms. Usually this works out there is no more going back to mom although last year a doe lost her kids and her doeling from the year before went back nursing. First time I ever had that happen and I probably would have blamed the doeling for the loss of kids except I turned the doelings out later then normal last year because I had a lack of shelter in the pen I was keeping the does

 

[Goat_Scout]

Yes, that was what I was asking. Because Rudy has been in with everyone including my two older Nubian does (one who is the doe drying up) since late August, and the whole time they've been together I haven't seen any mounting. Granted, that could be because neither of them have gone into heat (or maybe they had overnight heats) but I've seen white mucus on both girls' rear ends once each. And Rudy and Vivian (doe drying up) have taken to each other and can constantly be seen grazing side by side, especially on one particular day a week or two ago (the day she had mucus I think)...

 

[Jessica84]

Where they in with the buck when they had this mucus? That's what I look for on signs of being bred if I have hear someone being bred at night or I have to go someplace for the day. I only see very little mucus if that on does that just simply come into heat without being bred. Usually not enough to really get their hair on their tail clumped together.
I'm not sure what's up with those two hanging together. There's a lot of hormones going around and maybe they just want away from it all ??? Or maybe another goat put them in their place possibly even the buck. Honestly who knows goats do strange things!

 

[Goat_Scout]

Yes, they were in with the buck when I saw that they had mucus. Matilda just had a little but Vivian had more, and it was on her tail as well. I think that was the first day I really saw them (Vivian & Rudy) start hanging out together.
And of course I didn't write down either of those days that they had mucus. So it will be a waiting game.

 

[ArborGoats]

Gotta love bucks... one of my boys last year enjoyed scaling any and all fences. The only thing that worked was housing him with "his" girls until he found a new home. Unfortunately he still jumped in with the other buck's girls when they came into heat as well. DNA verified he basically bred everything... So now I have a whole muttly crew... but my does were all standards, and they I had wanted them all bred, just not to bucks I ended up with.

The new owners of my problem child, ended up putting him on a dog line, because like here, he scaled everything he got his sights on. I've been keeping a strict eye on his kids, and so far no one has show his propensity to jump.