Buck Question

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by RowdyKidz, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. Keep him

    0 vote(s)
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  2. Try him again

    0 vote(s)
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  3. Sell him to someone that can handle him

    100.0%
  1. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    I have just lost a proven (bred) doe that never had a problem kidding and my other doe needed assistance getting last kid out because she was so wide. The does both had a set of triplets and the kids were very large.
    I have NEVER had a problem with kidding or the diets of the girls. They have a balanced diet and were doing fine the kids were just massive. They were bred to the same buck. And these were his first kids for me.

    Should I sell the buck or not? I want show quality goats with the ease of kidding. Do you think it's the buck causing those MASSIVE kids and kidding problems?

    PLEASE NEED ADVICE!!!!
     
  2. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    well what have the does other kids been like.. I know when i had pygmys the sire and dam influenced kid size
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    have you had other does kid this year? do you have more kids due by him this year? do you have more does due by other bucks still?

    If yes to the last two then I would wait to see how they kid out. It could be the buck - but I wouldnt be to hasty if you have yet to have any other does kid this year - could be what you are feeding them dispite no changes and fine kidding before (their bodies do change).
     
  4. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    Wait till you see what happens when your does that are bred to your other buck kid. Is he from a line that throws large kids? Is he large? You have very nice goats btw. My vet said she has seen alot of does this year with trouble...all Pygmy or that type. Sorry you lost her, and the kids. :hug:

    I had a doe (Nigerian, but built like a Pygmy), need a c-section last spring. I was thinking I overfed her grain and the kid was huge...the buck bred other does and had normal size kids with them. But, they all got the same feed...so...she'll now be a well loved pet.
     
  5. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    I would also wait just a bit, until your other does kid (if there is any more due soon). When we had Pygmies we were only after ease of kidding, "show quality" came after that. We had a buck who produced small, healthy babies.

    Just curious how much grain you were giving your does throughout pregnancy? The bad thing now is that a lot of Pygmy breeders feed WAY too much food keeping their does in "show conditioning." This is not healthy, imo. Our Pygmy does that just kidded, got 1/2 -3/4 cup grain 1x a day throughout pregnancy, upping it to about a cup during the last month. Their babies were good-sized and average, healthy deliveries. Free-choice grass hay and only a little alfalfa as a treat, maybe once or twice a week.

    I was talking to another breeder who has been raising Pygmies forever (I think about 20-30 years) and she said alfalfa is not needed for Pygmies, makes them gain too much weight. She said they have never had problems with their Pygmy does kidding, in all that time breeding them (but sure helped a lot of other people's does).
     
  6. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    Our goats get 16 oz of food per day and have access to grass hay and fresh water 24/7.
    We bought this buck from a big name breeder in GA and her kids from him were normal sized. He is VERY wide boy.
    The doe had twins last year and I had thought they were big but compared to the the kids I've had (Not just these trips) they were tiny.
    My next doe is due in July. And she is bred to the other buck (the other buck happens to be my deceased doe's kid). haven't had any other bucks sire kids yet this year. I have a tiny doe I was going to breed to the buck, but we decided not to take any risks with her because she's technically my grandmother's and we don't want anything bad to happen to her.
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I assume 16oz is not per head but for the whole group of does?
     
  8. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    For the preggy girls.
    Sorry, meant 8 oz not 16. :doh:
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    ok so they get a cup each per goat per day for the entire pregnancy? thats not bad.

    Not sure if you have seen this article before or not but here it is anyway

    http://kinne.net/drostudy.htm
     
  10. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    Thanks Stacey. I talked to his breeder and she never had problems delivering his kids and they were average size. She seemed to think it was ketosis or something along a similar line. :shrug: She also said he was from easy kidding lines.
    They had actually gotten more grain last year than they did this year. I'll see about changing the pregnant doe's diet now. At least grain intake.
     
  11. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I would wait and see as far as selling him, one thing I have found is that the older a doe gets, she can utilize her feed more efficiently as she's not as active as a yearling. You may want to "play" around with their grain intake and see how they do, they just may not need 8 oz to keep in condition, you may be able to decrease by 2-3 oz and they'll still be healthy looking.
     
  12. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    What were they getting for hay when they were pregnant?
     
  13. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    grass hay
     
  14. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    I have to go against popular opinion here and place my suspicions with the buck. You seem like a very knowledgeable person and from what you write I think we can rule out dam fault and feed fault.

    I guess the thing I really want to say, is that he may have been a kidding ease sire at the other breeder's place, and had small kids with her does, but that doesnt at all mean that he will repeat the performance with your particular does. Some bloodlines and individuals just dont 'go' together well.

    I've had a similar experience with our cattle. I have a beautiful ex-show heifer (she's now around 5) and she's a really big girl, well grown. She was a very small calf, her parents are both average/small birthweights, she was joined to a low birth weight, calving ease bull that we have had no problems with. Our calves average around 37kg at birth. Her first calf was 59kg. Some genetics just 'nick' well, and I guess with that bull she just clicked. FWIW the vet euthanased the calf and cut it up to get it out - refused to do a caesar, stupid, stupid vet - it was the most beautiful heifer calf we'd ever bred.
     
  15. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    It could be the buck, or it could be the combinations of genetics. How many kids did she have? single birth kids tend to be larger then multiples.
    beth
     
  16. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    both had 3.
     
  17. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    Keren: That's what I think but all the pygmy breeders I talked to shot it down. :shrug:
     
  18. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Well, from my experience it can and does happen.

    If it were me in that position, I always figure my does are worth more to me than any buck, regardless of his quality, bloodlines or show winnings. I can always find a new buck, but my does have that friendship thing added in.

    So I would sell him; I'd warn potential buyers that I'd had large kids from him, but other breeders had normal ones.

    But ultimately, its your decision :) and I know its a hard one, sorry, I think you've got some good advice from all around and now you need to sit down and think long and hard about what to do :thumb: good luck!